where would joe louis figure in todays heavyweight division ?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by madmanc3210, Oct 16, 2011.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why? He's devastating just as he is, he doesn't need anything you've mentioned. He could only be knocked OUT by huge, protracted beatings from noted punchers, rather like Tyson, who he was also taller than. Sure he could be flashed, and sure it might cost him, but this is also the case with Wlad, who looks much more vulnerable to hard punches to me.

    That's just more bull****. How the hell can I answer a post like that? Start mumbling about how Wlad needs a better chin and a more aggressive approach? They are what they are and they don't need changing to be competitive.

    I agree that picking Langford to beat Vitali is a bad call, but I certainly think it's less delusional than your extreme stance. The last ten years have sported some of the worst HW challengers SINCE Johnny Paycheck. It's ironic the way you attack other posters for their blindness and bias whilst taking a rabid, unjustifiable position yourself.
     
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    #91
  2. Cael

    Cael Claudia Cardinale Full Member

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    ppl. confuse greatness with head 2 head abilities.
    Sure louis was great but sure as **** he ain't the 2nd best HW of all time head 2 head.

    And if he was one of the best p4p fighters to ever live then what does that make out of Conn, a smaller light heavy who was boxing his ears off?
     
    Cael, Oct 16, 2011
    Cael, Oct 16, 2011
    #92
  3. Big Red

    Big Red Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Big Red, Oct 16, 2011
    Big Red, Oct 16, 2011
    #93
  4. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why is that the point? Wlad might beat Louis, but it wouldn't make his era somehow useless, it would just mean he had lost to an exceptional fighter, which Wlad is.

    For me, I think he would get him. He brings superb counter-pressure, has a superb shoulder roll and is one of the most elegant baiting counter-punchers in HW history. I think that's a bad mix for Wlad, I think Louis would KO him. But I certainly don't see any mad gulf in era and ability. Some of the very best fighters in history come from that era, not greatest, best.

    If you think that Louis is literally a sitting duck - if you think ANYONE with sphere of punching, deadly within inches is literally a sitting duck - I don't know what to say to you. He spent an entire career, the most dominant in the sport's history, making other fighters believe exactly that. You think it's a co-incidence that you think it now? His whole, whole strategy was to make fighters think the space he was in was safe, to make fighter think he was attackable. Then he knocked them out.

    And Haye? Don't make me laugh. He fought like he was terrified, he hardly threw a punch. Even if Wlad beat him like a dog, Louis would never be the non-effort that Haye was. Haye was an embarresment of a challenge (not Wlad's fault).

    This is such a useless thing to say. Guess what? The Klits have never fought anything like Louis. In fact, only Vitali ever shared the ring with the top HW of the era, and he was beaten. When great fighters meet, they tend to be one-another's best opponent.

    Wlad and Vitali have a MISERABLE record against top 5 contenders, Louis devastated every one he ever met before his retirement, and he met more than any HW, ever.


    Boxing is different. It is different becuase modern fighter fight less, spar less, come from a smaller talent pool and becuase our sport is more about heart than any other sport. Baseball just isn't comparable in any way.

    Modern fighters have certain advantages. Old-time fighters have certain advantages. In terms of ability I don't see any huge difference between the greatest fighters of now and most of the great fighters of yesteryear, that is, Money and Pac are unquestionably great and comparable with almost anyone, Wlad is unquestionably a great HW, comaprable with almost anybody. But this idea that the sport has advanced like sprinting or baseball is just silly, and that's backed by footage. Pep doesn't look "worse" than Money for peaking 70 years ago, and Robinson CERTAINLY isn't worse than Pacquiao.
     
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    #94
  5. KO KIDD

    KO KIDD Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tough call he hit like a mother ****er had a great jab and good defense

    tough to see how people from the 30's and 40's would do now i mean hed be undersized but he was a better boxer than most today

    he may be top 10 all things considered, prob could be povetkin and pick up the WBA regular
     
    KO KIDD, Oct 16, 2011
    KO KIDD, Oct 16, 2011
    #95
  6. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    :lol:
     
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    #96
  7. Cael

    Cael Claudia Cardinale Full Member

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    Most of his prime career he was borderline 200lbs...The point was that you can't take a 1930 200lbs Joe Louis and add more weight on him based on modern nutrition;...he wouldn't be Joe Louis anymore, you might as well make him a super heavyweight.
     
    Cael, Oct 16, 2011
    Cael, Oct 16, 2011
    #97
  8. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I agree with you about this much.
     
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    McGrain, Oct 16, 2011
    #98
  9. Masamune

    Masamune Active Member Full Member

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    This -


    Louis had the skills and power to KO guys weighing 240 - with punches that seldom travelled more than 12 inches , Louis would murder Haye and Wlad and would have too much in the locker for Vitali .
     
    Masamune, Oct 16, 2011
    Masamune, Oct 16, 2011
    #99
  10. DrMo

    DrMo Team GB Full Member

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    Hush dear boy, hush

    There are too many comments of yours in this thread deserving a :lol::rofl:patsch
    I wont waste time doing them all

    If you aren't trolling then I you get all help & support you need
     
    DrMo, Oct 16, 2011
    DrMo, Oct 16, 2011
    #100
  11. Masamune

    Masamune Active Member Full Member

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    Louis was on a roll but still a little green in 1936 in that he let the hype and the newspaper guys get to him so that he was dismissive of Schmeling .

    Max Schmeling was a class act and very underated in his own era and by todays fight fans - a very clever fighter with underated power in his right hand .

    if herr max was fighting today we would be drooling over his counter right hand and not James Toneys .
     
    Masamune, Oct 16, 2011
    Masamune, Oct 16, 2011
    #101
  12. Maxmomer

    Maxmomer Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tennis is a *** sport. We're talking about boxing here.
     
    Maxmomer, Oct 16, 2011
    Maxmomer, Oct 16, 2011
    #102
  13. mr fists

    mr fists Active Member Full Member

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    louis is an incredible fighter from a historical standpoint, but h2h in the modern era people need to be realistic. he would be the size of an average light heavy. he was hurt bad against 167 lb conn, you think he could take a big shot from a klit or haye? he was knocked down by galento and others, doesn't give me confidence even over guys like arreola. you can argue that boxing skills haven't evolved that much from the 1930s, but you can't say the same athletically. for louis it would be like fighting a superhuman.
    he would be quicker and mentally tougher than the rest, would still box excellently but not as effectively as in his era. his power would not be so pronounced against bigger men with bigger gloves. he would still have some good wins but he would be ktfo several times in his prime. and dont even think about comparing carnera to a klit, he's basically an earlier, shorter (as in, worse) version of valuev. louis is greater than any modern heavyweight, doesn't mean he beats them. and for the person who said, louis's chin was as good as tysons, really?
     
    mr fists, Oct 16, 2011
    mr fists, Oct 16, 2011
    #103
  14. Cael

    Cael Claudia Cardinale Full Member

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    great now we arguing semantics..:roll:

    I think i must make myself clear, he was clearly not as stationary as say a 2 ton Tony or an Audley Harrison, "sitting duck" was merely a comparison term that i used btw. him and Haye.

    And yes Haye fought petrified but that still doesn't take anything away from the speed and reflexes that he showed, which IMO are much better then Joe Louis's.

    Sure thing the reverse it's true also, but lets just say that Louis would have a much bigger surprise.
    Men as fast, as big and as good as the Klits were something unthinkable in the 30's whereas the Klits have the advantage of time and film on their side.

    always hear the same excuse...could you give me another example of sport that didn't evolved through the years?

    You may have a point with the lower classes but the HW division clearly developed through the years.
    At the beginning of last century, fights between middleweights and heavyweights were quite often and competitive.(Jeffries and Fitz, Johnson and Hart comes to mind) and it wasn't a rarity when the significant smaller man came out victorious.
    You won't see in 21 century 160 pounder fight a 200+ (it won't be sanctioned) but could you comfortably say that Martinez or Pavlik have a chance at beating an Adamek or Haye?..i won't even mention the Klits.
     
    Cael, Oct 16, 2011
    Cael, Oct 16, 2011
    #104
  15. Big Red

    Big Red Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Big Red, Oct 16, 2011
    Big Red, Oct 16, 2011
    #105
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