Where would Peter Jackson have ranked relative to the heavyweight champions?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by janitor, Jun 28, 2009.


  1. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    Lets just say that Peter Jackson had been granted a shot at the heavyweight title.

    Where would he have ranked relative to fighters who held that distinction:

    Allong with dominant champions such as Sullivan, Jeffries or Johnson?

    Allong with short term champions like Corbett and Fitzsimmons?

    Somwhere below the level of Corbett and Fitzsimmons?

    Exposed as never really having been of championship calibre?

    What do you think?
     
  2. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Corbett was champ for five years if you agree with his lineage, he was hardly short term!;)

    Personally I see Peter Jackson beating John L in 1889 and reigning until 1893 when in a rematch, (after an initial draw) Corbett would beat him.

    I would of rated him above John L (for Queensberry rules) and a Heavyweight Ruby Robert; on par with Corbett, and below Jeffries and Johnson.
     
  3. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why do you think Corbett would necessarily beat him? Just curious.
     
  4. TBooze

    TBooze Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    In 1893 Jackson was not fighting and would not fight for six years. By the time he fought Jeffires, he was a very ill, I am guessing in 1893, Jackson probably started to lose his physical edge, and if he draws with a 1891 Corbett in a tough fight, then I think, two years on, he loses.
     
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I think, though, that the deterioration was caused by booze, his dependance upon which seemed linked to his grief at being unable to match for the title...sort of like what happened to Langford, who didn't lose his edge anything like as dramatically.

    Maybe i'm way off though.
     
  6. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    No you are prety much on the money.
     
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    If that were the case my guess would be that Corbett gets edged out by Jackson until age catches up with him. Who knows, it might even be Jeffries that unseats him.

    I rate Jackson highly already. If he reigned from Sullivan-Jeffries he would be my #6-9, above Jeffries probably below Johnson, although details of who and how he beat would work obviously decide his placement.
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jackson became an alcoholic while in the UK,his sparring and exhibition partner Conn[forget his last name] mentions this in a news article .Jackson also contracted TB and , it was fairly advanced by the time he met Jeffries.
    Jackson's draw with Corbett was his swan song ,some said he was allready in decline when they met,what is certain is he never really reached those heights again.He had a fine win over Frank Slavin in London ,but his next performances were over men of lesser calibre.
     
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Of course Jackson had that injury coming into the Corbett fight - at best his training was seriously disrupted, at worst his mobility was limited.
     
  10. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Jackson was a very good talent. I tend to think of him as a bigger version of Ezzard Charles. On fight reports, Jackson used speed, science and power to win.

    The Slavin fight is is best win. He did however have trouble vs a tough Goddard in a fight where both men were floored. Though he was older and in-active, he was in shape and fine form according to the new papers vs Jeffries and was pretty much hurt and done for in round two. Based on these reports, perhaps Jackson had trouble vs big punchers.

    If Jackson had the right matches in the 1890's, he could have rated a tad higher. Jackson blew his chance for a re-match with Corbett becasue he could not agree to Corbett's terms of a venue. Corbett was famous in New Orleans and Jacksonville for having world title fights there, and proposed that venue for the re-match. Jackson wanted to fight up North. the two meet in a hotel for a night and could not come to terms.

    The first Jackson vs Corbett fight was a classic. I have read the round by round review. In the round by round report, Corbett won a few more rounds, but Jackson won a few rounds by a wider margin. The action slowed by the 23rd round, and there was nothing doing in the final 10 rounds.

    I tend to view Jackson as an all time top 30 type of talent. There is no ring flim on him.
     
  11. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    I like this guess and I tend to agree.

    I have him around 20.
     
  12. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Jackson ,after beating Slavin in London on May 5th 1892,had ONE more REAL FIGHT BEFORE FACING JEFFRIES,that was on the 28th NOv 1892,against Denny Kelliher a nobody in a 4 rounder,this was back in the States.Con Riordan, Jacksons sparring partner and travelling companion , said that Jackson became an alcoholic after the Slavin fight ,he also contracted TB,through not taking care of himself,Jackson retired from the ring ,opened a boxing academy and gave occassional exhibitions,the time between his last fight against Kelliher and his bout with Jeffries was nearly 6 years and Jackson was 37 years old,any one claiming that Jackson was in fine form and fit , after his spiral into drunkeness and despair from not being able to obtain a title fight with Sullivan or Corbett, [two men who held the title well before Jeffries came on the scene], and being in the grip of the TB that would eventually kill him , needs to be viewed with deep suspicion imo.
    The reason for boosting Jackson is also readily apparent imo.
     
  13. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I tend to put Jackson in the #16-#22 range.

    If he'd gotten and won a title fight against a conditioned, late 1880's Sullivan, that would move him up; and a title win over Corbett would nudge him up, too. Ditto a non-title win over c. 1894 Fitzsimmons.

    A non-competitive performance against any of those guys would definitely drop him, especially if it happened against Sullivan in 1889. Looking-good-while-loosing against Sullivan would nudge him down a litttle. Good-performance losses by c. 1894 wouldn't much hurt Jackson, though.

    Winning over 1892 Sullivan would only help Jackson if Jackson could blow him out in a couple rounds; loosing to 1892 Sullivan would seriously hurt.
     
  14. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    He was of championship calibre without doubt imo,he chased Sullivan for nearly 3 years and Corbett for 3 years.
    There is a load of crap talked about how Corbett was wiiling to fight Jackson ,Corbett was challenged repeatedly ,after beating Sullivan he froze the title for a year to act in a play.Then as Jackson challenges got louder he said he would only fight Jackson in the South . the Jacksonville Athletic Club to be precise,The National Sporting Club in London who had promoted the Jackson Slavin fight made an offer ,but Corbett would only fight in the South.This is Jackson's response.

    " I have nothing against the Southern sportsmen I have met a great number of them ,in New York , and elsewhere,and they are as thorough going as the Northern set.
    It is not the sporting men proper that I am afraid of ,but the rabble.
    No one in this country needs to be told of the intense hatred of my race that exists in the South.
    I feel that if I whipped Corbett ,or any other white man down there I would be shot before I could leave the ring". 19th Sept 1894.

    Realising he could not get Corbett into the ring Jackson sailed for Australia, with this parting comment ," I have not been treated like a man" 10th Oct 1894
    As soon as Jackson was safely on the other side of the World Corbett issued a challenge to Jackson to fight in London at the National Sporting Club ,though the Club had said it no longer was interested in promoting the fight.Corbett also made a series of derogotary remarks about Jackson which were freely quoted in the press."Jackson sneaked out of the country like a cur", and " Jackson is a rank coward ", were two of the more pleasant ones.
    A poster with an agenda will tell you that Jackson was in fine shape and fit ,when he met Jeffries nearly 6 years later. This is an extract from the National Police Gazette. 25th may 1895.
    "Black Prince Peter's fighting days are about over.
    he has been petted and spoiled by the aristocratic sports on the other side.
    He has had too much prosperity and the result is an allmost complete collapse.
    The people who once regarded him in the light of a rival for the championship , are not now so sanguine of his ability."
    A report on the Jeffries fight.
    "Peter Jackson entered the prize ring in an ill advised match with Jeffries in San Francisco in 1898 ,having done little training ,except for a few sparring exhibitions.Jackson was unable to stand after the third round.
    The thorough routing confirmed the sceptics opinion ,that Jackson was broke up ,and beyond his prime."
    Jackson died in 1901 he was 40 years old.
     
  15. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I would suggest that Jackson ranks verry high on contemporary endorsment.

    You could find a large number of contemporary observers who thought that Sullivan was the greatest heavyweight ever and as many for Jeffries or Johnson. You might find a small number who nominated Corbett or Fitzsimmons.

    In terms of how people who saw him fight rated him Jackson would come out more on the level of Sullivan, Jeffries and Johnson than Corbett and Fitzsimmons. People were ranking him right up there.