Where would Sugar Ray Robinson rank all-time if we ignore his Middleweight accomplishments?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Sooncreate3, Jan 21, 2021.

  1. Sooncreate3

    Sooncreate3 New Member Full Member

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    On your personal all-time pound for pound list, where would the OG Sugar Man rank if we look at his career from 1940-1950 (from lightweight (beating Sammy Angott) to welterweight (defending his last title defense against Charley Fusari) and ignoring all the Jake LaMotta fights and other middleweight contenders in between)? Would SRR still be on the Top 10 P4P List of All time? (For me, he would still stay on the list but maybe a little behind Ali at #7-9 but ahead of Duran, Benny Leonard, and Willie Pep.)
     
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  2. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft 'Snarky Little Gobshite' - IntentionalButt Full Member

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    Still top 20. He'd still have beaten Gavalin, Zivic, Servo, Angott, Armstrong, Jannazzo, Bell, Costner and others. He'd also be undefeated for like 70 fights.
     
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  3. William Walker

    William Walker Boxing Addict Full Member

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    He's still one of the greatest welterweights of all time. It also depends on his middleweight career. Does he still beat a lot of world-classers? Does he beat some of the same guys, just not when they are champions? I say, without his career at middleweight his career takes a serious blow in the P4P rankings.
     
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  4. Mike Cannon

    Mike Cannon Active Member Full Member

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    Sound.
     
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  5. The Morlocks

    The Morlocks Boxing Junkie banned Full Member

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  6. Sooncreate3

    Sooncreate3 New Member Full Member

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    Even without fighting LaMotta, Fullmer, Graziano, Turpin, almost outboxing LHW Joey Maxim, Bobo Olson, and Basilio?
     
  7. The Fighting Yoda

    The Fighting Yoda Member Full Member

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    He could be still No.1 as already mentioned, cause he was probably the most complete fighter ever.
    Though, I say still top 10, maybe behind boxers like Armstrong, Greb, Ali and Louis.
     
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  8. DanDaly

    DanDaly Active Member Full Member

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    Still top 10 at least. His work at welterweight alone is enough to cement his legacy as one of the greats. He solidly beats any welterweight ever.
     
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  9. Balder

    Balder Well-Known Member Full Member

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    It would have honestly really hurt his legacy. As much as he was great at welterweight, many would have said it was a weak era, etc.

    He would still be mentioned, and considered great, but had he not pushed himself upward not many would remember him as well as they should

    I guess the number 2 on everyone's list goes up. ...not mine though... Just most. I had him 2 or 3...Greb is in my top spot
     
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  10. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Well he beat Lamotta 4 out of 5 as a Welterweight basically.
     
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  11. Blaxx

    Blaxx Member Full Member

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    He'd be something like 68-0 with only one close fight against Marty Servo as a mark against him. Would have still beat several top fighters
    Sammy Angott x2
    Marty Servo x2
    Fritzie Zivic x2
    Henry Armstrong
    Kid Gavilan x2

    And other interesting contenders like Tommy Bell, George Costner, Jackie Wilson etc who have sort of been forgotten. It's hard to tell, 68-0 assuming he fights no other welters in place of the middles he fought would still be astonishing, and I think if we had footage of his 40s fights to go with such a record he would still rank very high.
     
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  12. Bujia

    Bujia Active Member Full Member

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    He was 111-1-2 (75 KOs) after the Fusari fight.

    You’re gonna have to expand on this, though. To just what extent are we eliminating “Middleweight” bouts? Any bout where he and/or his opponent weighed above 147? If so, that would cut his record down to 51 fights.

    Even still, he’d have gone 51-0 (31 KOs) on the way to winning the Welterweight title and making 5 consecutive defenses. Along the way he would have picked up wins over Henry Armstrong, Kid Gavilan once (both weighed in over the limit for their first bout), Sammy Angott 3 times, Fritzie Zivic once (Zivic weighed 148 for the rematch), Bernard Docusen, George Costner, Tommy Bell twice, Marty Servo twice, Maxie Shapiro, California Jackie Wilson once, Izzy Jannazzo once, Jimmy Doyle, and Maxie Berger. A few other contenders, too.

    Still looks like a high level all time great to me. Top 20-30, maybe higher. He beat 4 different fighters (6 times total) I’d rank in my top 100. Then you factor in the “what if” aspect that would’ve undoubtedly become a growing narrative had he retired undefeated in his 20s.
     
    Last edited: Jan 21, 2021
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  13. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    He'd be in arguments with Sugar Ray Leonard, which would make him second half of the top twenty all time for me. 15-20ish.

    Still above Floyd :lol: