Where would Tyson rank today if he never had come back after prison?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Apr 21, 2008.


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  1. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    OK. But he was a solid top ten contender that had lost to journeymen.
     
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    #16
  2. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    True,

    A record of 29-4-1-19, is not what I would call a journeyman's record, and nor is one that contains wins over Berbick, Page, Cobb, M. Wiliiams. Douglas was also arguably robbed in his draw against Tangstad. I believe the IBF had him ranked around #2 at the time.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 21, 2008
    mr. magoo, Apr 21, 2008
    #17
  3. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    He hadn't lost to a journeyman recently though. His latest defeat prior to facing Tyson, was three years earlier against #1 contender Tony Tucker in a fight that he was winning and fighting for a title.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 21, 2008
    mr. magoo, Apr 21, 2008
    #18
  4. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    He might be ranked higher considering a great deal of his mystique would still remain, and him deteriorating so badly than Danny Williams and Kevin McBride beat him wouldn't be there to detract.
     
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    #19
  5. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    That's true.

    Now, If Ali had lost to this guy in 1967 wouldn't it change your views on Ali? How about Louis? Instead of winning a contriviersial decision to Walcott he got beat by Douglas? It's this loss, not the post-prison losses to Hollyfield (ATG) that dents Tyson's mystique.

    The damage had already been done.
     
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    #20
  6. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    Eh, Louis has some similar, almost embarrassing incidents on his record.

    Being floored and hurt by Galento...

    At least with Douglas/Tyson you can cite that Tyson was on depression medication, in legal trouble... That Douglas did indeed get a slightly long count.

    It's basically a being in peak form and having a bad showing vs. a circumstancial loss.
     
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    #21
  7. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Why is being floored by a really hard puncher, getting up and beating the **** out of him embaressing? How is it comparable to a LOSS?

    At least with Louis/Galento you can say Louis won?

    The long count is pure bull****.

    I have no idea what a circumstantiall loss is, but I know i'd rather have a bad showing and win for sure.
     
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    #22
  8. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    I had already agreed to this on my thread entitled "ali's reign from 64-67.. I think when Ali left in 1967, his resume was on par with Tyson's in 1989. The Douglas loss in hindsite makes him fall a tad short, therefore I would not rate Tyson as high as Ali. But, I think #6 is rather low.
     
    mr. magoo, Apr 21, 2008
    mr. magoo, Apr 21, 2008
    #23
  9. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    What are the wins Tyson has that you feel are equal to Ali's two wins over Sonny Liston? Or do you not credit those wins?
     
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    #24
  10. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    It's a quality thing. I'd take Buster Douglas over Galento any day.

    The long count isn't bull****.

    Lots of fighters recieve counts that are technically long, and if want to be literal Douglas did get one. ESPN had a show shortly after the fight highlighting this.

    The Tyson count was similarly long, so...
     
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    #25
  11. Russell

    Russell Loyal Member Full Member

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    No one sane takes the second fight at face value.
     
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    Russell, Apr 21, 2008
    #26
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    The fighter on the deck reacts to the ten as it is counted by the referee. What Don King thinks is not relevant. Most boxers recieved 12-15 seconds.

    Getting dropped by a good fighter is not as hurtful as being beatenen by a slightly better one.
     
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    #27
  13. godking

    godking Active Member Full Member

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    Louis lost to Max Schmelling a guy with a wose won loss record then Douglas had at the time he fought Tyson.

    I guess this dents Louis mystique as well.
     
    godking, Apr 21, 2008
    godking, Apr 21, 2008
    #28
  14. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    Losing to Schmeling CERTAINLY dents Louis' mystique. You feel otherwise?

    However, Max is in my top 20 HW's, all time. Buster didn't get into my 30. I think he'd be under consideration for a 40, best guess 45-55. So basically there is a difference between a young fighter in his physical prime losing to a wily master who is seen today as one of the greatest HW's of all and a great champion losing to a journeyman - sorry, contender - because his wife is giving him jip.
     
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    McGrain, Apr 21, 2008
    #29
  15. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If Louis hadn't avenged it so emphatically, it definitely would have dented his mystique.
     
    Bokaj, Apr 21, 2008
    Bokaj, Apr 21, 2008
    #30
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