Where would Tyson rank today if he never had come back after prison?

I definately credit those wins. Tyson's 1 round destruction of an undefeated Spinks was certainly monumental at the time, though he was heavily favored to do it. I also think that unifying three titles by beating three individual holders, also has great merit. If you think about it, Tyson actually had to beat 4 fighters to be considered the lineal champion. Frankly, I think this was nonsense, but the critics would not let up until he did so. Therefore, he needed wins over WBC champ Berbick, WBA champ Smith, IBF champ Tucker and lineal titlist Spinks. Ali had to beat but one fighter to be considered thee champ, and I often here old school advocates gripe about what fighters of the old eras had to go through in order to earn their recognition. I certainly think that we can extend Tyson the same curtesy.

 

I think his ranking would slightly improve. There would still be questions as he would have not regained his championship.

 

How does Ali's pre exile resume far outstrip that of Tyson When Liston is the only guy you can say was clearly better then Tyon 80s opposition.

At best Ali's pre exile opposition is slightly better then that of Tyson.

 

Tyson was the youngest champion of all time, and acheived a record of 37-0 in just 4 years. As I said, he had to beat 4 fighters before anyone would pat him on the back and call him THEE champion. Spinks was undefeated and a conqueror of two weight divisions, yet Tyson smoked him in 91 seconds. Holmes was washed up, but so were Williams and Folley. Tubbs was a recent titlist. Bruno and Williams weren't slouches either, and Chuvalo had lost 2 out of his most recent fight before facing Ali. Now I might agree that Ali's pre exile reign was a bit better than Tyson's, but claiming that it " far outstripped Tyson's " is getting a tad carried away says I.

 

Who was Tyson supposed to beat in order to set him apart from anyone else? Have you forgotten what reign was like in those days, or were you simply not there to see it? He was considered the most feared and unbeatable man on the planet Mcgrain. Sure, he lost to Douglas, but only long after he had been deemed the very best in the world, after 37 wins and 9 title defenses. Ali had already gone into exhile by the time he reached this point in his career.

 

Like anything else, its a statistical acheivement. Disregard these types of milestones and Rocky Marciano's undfeated record means nothing as does Louis's longest reign. You can't just pick and chose the criterion that you're willing to credit fighters for.

Liston may have all time great status, but he was past his prime, had only fought once in two years, and quit both times he fought Ali. Of course Spinks wasn't too active either, but he was undefeated, and Tyson had to beat 3 others to gain recognition as champion, so saying that Ali's resume is better due to beating a single past prime fighter does not sit well with me.

 

You dont lose the title for not defended against the top fighter, Holmes was the man, and he past it down to Spinks. Deal with it.
Why dont we say Dempsey was not the man for failing to face Wills or Sullivan not the man for not fighting Jackson or even saying Louis was not the man for not defended against the black crew in the late 30's.
Holmes was the man, Spinks just took it off of him.

 

I don't know for sure, but given Marvis Frazier's winning streak, I doubt that he was totally unrated. He was coming off of wins over Smith, Ribalta, Tillis, Bugner and Broad with his only loss coming against Holmes. Tyson destroyed Marvis in 30 seconds. Tyson also beat Ribalta, Ferguson and a few others who may or may not have been ranked. We also have to look at the fact that Ring Ratings are not the only think we can judge him by. Unfortunately he had an obligation to face fighters that were ranked by the governing bodies as corrupt as they may have been.

 

Exactly, if we're comparing Ali's resume pre-wxile to Tyson's pre-Douglas loss, then I think its very close. I might be inclined to giving Muhammad's reign from that period a few more points, but I'm not willing to say that its lightyears better than Tyson's on the one point that he beat Sonny Liston.