Where would Tyson rank today if he never had come back after prison?

Let me try and clearify this,

Yes, I think Ali's pre-exile reign surpasses that of Tyson's pre-exile reign, but mainly due to the Douglas loss.

Now, if we compare Ali's pre-exile reign to to Tyson's reign pre-Douglas loss, then I'd say its very close, perhaps even going in favor of Tyson, regardless of the Liston wins for Ali.

 

Well, I didn't mean "the man" to mean "the real champion". Yes, Holmes was the champion, therefore Spinks was the champion.

I meant "the man" as in the world's best heavyweight, the number 1 guy. Many people - quite reasonably - figured Thomas was better in 1985 than Holmes was, and when light-heavyweight champion Spinks beat Holmes, even more were ready to look elsewhere for the world's best heavyweight. That's what I'm saying.

 

***

 

***

 

That lightheavyweight was 6'3", 210 Lbs, undefeated in 31 fights, younger than Liston, and lost in 91 seconds.

But you're right.....To each his own.....

 

Sonny,

Jim Jeffries, Jack Dempsey, Joe Louis, Sonny Liston, Joe Frazier and Larry Holmes never regained thier titles either after losing them, so Tyson is infact in good company.

The premise of the thread is if Tyson had never come back after prison. So what we have to go by is Tyson's last fight being against Razor Ruddock and we should include he had a fight lined up with Evander Holyfield.

From 1987-1997 Mike Tyson would have been a favorite over any fighter in the HW during that time period regardless of what the actual outcomes could have been. Bowe, Lewis, Holyfield, Mercer, Morrison, Foreman, Moorer would have all been betting underdogs against Mike Tyson anytime until 1997.

In Boxing perception is everything. How a person is perceived and viewed by the fans and sports writers is how he is ultimately ranked in the books. Tyson aura of invincibility was still intact. He was made human by Douglas but was still regarded as superhuman. He'd be ranked, at worst # 5

 

Well Holyfiled beat Tyson in 96, so I would make Holyfiled the favor in 97(The rematch of couse)

 

Yes, and I thought Tyson needed to regain the title to start a campaign stand with the very best. I didnt think he was as proven as Louis, Frazier and Dempsey from that reign. Holmes, Liston and Jeffries are arguable, in my ratings. I never thought Tyson as amazing as others did. He looked awesome at times but not always, and I was waiting to see how he'd do against a few more live opponents. I certainly felt he had the potential to crack the top 5 heavyweights of all-time but he hadn't done that. That's how I figured it.

Okay. I would rank him outside the elite. In fact, in those days I DID used to write down my all-time ratings, and Tyson wasn't in the top 10.

Yeah.

Not on my list.

The only boxing writers' lists I've found so far from the post-Ruddock pre-comeback relevant period are the following :

Bert Sugar, 1991
1. Jack Dempsey
2. Joe Louis
3. Muhammad Ali
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Joe Frazier
8. Larry Holmes
9. Sonny Liston
10. Mike Tyson

Arthur Harris, 1992 (Nov 1992 Boxing Scene)
1. Muhammad Ali
2. Joe Louis
3. Jack Dempsey
4. Jack Johnson
5. Gene Tunney
6. Rocky Marciano
7. Larry Holmes
8. Jersey Joe Walcott
9. Joe Frazier
10. Sonny Liston