Where would Vitlai Klitschko’s comeback rate if he defeats Sam Peter?

1. Activity isnt everything, your whole point rests on Vitali been inactive. But ALi beat

2. So the Hagler fight wasnt an extradinary comeback? I had SRL winning because Hagler gave away the early rounds

3. Foreman looked like a beast against Ali, he threw 100+ POWERpunches a round in extreme heat. Feetplanted full body behind each shot punches not arm punches like Vitali throws. Are you now saying Foreman was past prime against Ali?

4. Yes, the first prime contender Vitali has faced

5. Actually didnt I show you Leonard was comebacking in the same conditions (albeit younger but he'd been a champ as long as Vitali and was more worn than Vitali is now). And hasnt it been proven other fighters have comeback and done it under far harder circumstances? Vitali is relatively sheltered

Most fighters have injuries so thats not even worth mentioning. Vitali has had a chance to recharge his batteries. His age may catch up with him, but he still looks fit

That aside if he beats Peter and a few other contenders Vitali will be a solid top30 level fighter maybe even top25

 

1/5. Ali was younger but its easier to fight longer and stay young these days because of improvement in performance enhancing supplements, fat burners. Sportsmen in all sports compete at much more advanced ages than they previously did because of advancements in sports science. Linford Christie was running faster times at 36yo than he was as a 26yo because of improvements in supplements etc.

Regardless many fighters have won belts at an advanced age, your sole reason for this being a big deal is Vitali has been out the ring for 3 years.

2. Its a great comeback.

3. Foreman looked like he always did against Ali.

4. Hide was in his prime but the definition of chinless, Hide would lose to a nobody Cruser the enxt year
Kirk Johnson was 30lbs over his prime weight and 31.

6, Vitali top30 now? based on resume you cant make him top30 as its too thin against actual contenders, I have Wlad top30 but Vitali, NOPE

 

It would be a good feat.

If Peter was a better opponent, and was the actual champion rather than a belt-holder, this would be a great one.

But he isn't, so it wouldn't be. More than 'slightly' behind Foreman's achievement.

Considering the criticism and derision you've aimed at Peter over the past three years, Mendoza, I'm not quite sure why you would consider this a great victory either, even for an old rusty Vitali.

 

Given that the best money by far is at heavyweight, while cruiserweight is one of the least-publicized divisions in the sport, the guys who choose to hang around at cruiserweight are probably, for the most part, doing so because they are not good enough to beat the top heavyweights. Old-time 180-195 pound heavyweight contenders are to be seen as legitimate heavyweights because they were competing on a level playing field with all the 210, 230 and 250 pound men the division had to offer and outperforming them. Since cruiserweights are fighting in segregation from an "unlimited" division, they are obviously NOT competing at heavyweight.

If those guys lost when they fought prime, talented contenders and just barely won against old, fat, rusty, injured ones who were never terribly good in the first place, then they weren't high-quality contenders either.

I think OLD FOGEY's analogy with regards to Peter and Firpo is pretty accurate. If Peter manages to beat Vitali, he'll be about on Firpo's level historically. At least Firpo decisively beat down old versions of Jess Willard and Bill Brennan, and a couple fringe contenders in Smith and Weinert.

Patterson and Layne consistently won fights against upper-tier contenders who were in their primes and in shape during their own primes. Peter has not done this and, insofar as I can tell, is pretty obviously not capable of it. Had Toney, McCline and Maskaev not been in their very late 30s, on their way out, and combinations of disgustingly fat, extremely rusty and coming off severe injuries, I expect they would all have beaten Peter.

I think Cockell is a fair analogy to Peter in terms of how he reached his standing; he officially achieved a #2 ranking, it's true, but he did so by very narrowly outpointing declining versions of LaStarza and Matthews who were more name than substance at that stage, and he was utterly brutalized against Marciano and Valdes without even being competitive. He may have reached a high official perch in the division, but I don't really consider him a high-quality contender.

As described above, I consider some of those guys "high-quality contenders" and some not.

This paragraph has absolutely nothing to do with what I said in the text you were responding to.

 

Indeed, Savold's "world championship" was every bit as legitimate as Peter's is.

 

It would be an impressive victory, but nowhere near an "historical victory" because Peter is very unimpressive. In my opinion thats shared by many others, he lost his first fight to obese 37 year old middleweight, and lost to a declining mediocre mccline who was around 38 at the time of the fight. His recent win over Maskaev is unimpressive considering Maskaev is 40 years old and coming off long layoff. Peter is strong and hits hard, but he is a fat out of shape lacks technical skills for a man his size and lacks coordination.


Thats good Vitali is coming back because he hardly accomplished anything in his first ring career.

 

They didn't. Layne had a good start of his career with wins over Walcott, Satterfield and Brion, although the latter two were erratic and even more inconsistent. After that, he pretty much lost every time he stepped up in class. How is that consistently beating top opposition?

Patterson lost to Maxim, then beat Moore (top opp.), Jackson, then took ridiculously easy titles defenses and the first time he met top opposition again, he got knocked into next week. He gets revenche but after that he he gets knocked out by Liston in one round, twice in a row. He gets a few good wins but then again loses to top opposition (Ali, Quarry, Ellis). Sorry but i don't see how that is consistently beating top opposition. Consistently beating and losing to them sounds more like it.

And don't get me wrong, i don't think that should be the criterium for a top contender, but you made the claim.

Yes it did, because you pointed out that a lot depended on what Peter does after he loses to Vitali as to whether or not he was a high quality contender. So i pointed out that a lot of other high quality contenders did nothing but lose after their shot at the big time.

 

Christie tested positive for banned substances. Which might explain his improved performance in his mid 30s.

 

Patterson fought a draw with quarry in a fight patterson CLEARLY won. Ellis fight was one of the worst robberies I have ever seen. It should be noted patterson was 33 when he was taking on these fights against those young lions. He also beat Machen, Chuvalo, Bonavena, Cooper. It was Cus who kept him from the big fights in the 1950s, patterson wasnt afraid. he would have murdered the likes of folley, machen, valdez. I think a fight with cleveland williams would have been interesting. Patterson is underated. By the way I consider ingemar johannson an elite contender.

 

I think Patterson would waste sam peter. Peter wouldnt be able to deal with pattersons speed and technical skills. Peter is too slow and predictable to finish patterson off. patterson easy decision.



I don't think your giving layne enough credit. Layne was viewed as a thunderous puncher on his way up, and thought of as the heir to the throne. layne could really crack with that right hand.

 

Layne vs Peter would be good fight. Both were tremendous punchers, both very durable, both lacked technical skills, both were wild aggresive fighters. layne had a bit more stamina, peter has considerable size advantage.

 

All it shows is Vitali is still raring to go, a big name, back in the mix to be a somebody historically etc

 

Vitali tested positive for banned substances too. Linford had a better excuse than Vitali though - many sports people were testing positive in 1998-2003 by accidently taking 19nor (a banned steroid but legal supplement)