Where would Vitlai Klitschko’s comeback rate if he defeats Sam Peter?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mendoza, Mar 11, 2008.


  1. mr. magoo

    mr. magoo VIP Member Full Member

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    This is really a no win situation for Peter. If he beats Vitali, then he's beaten up on an old fighter coming out of retirment. If he loses to him, then he's lost to a has been. Frankly, I'm surprised that Peter hasn't tried to go after someone else. There is no legacy for him to gain in this fight, no matter the outcome.
     
  2. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Oh, and for another point of reference here, even if George Foreman came out of retirement right now and beat Peter, it wouldn't wildly enhance his all-time standing in my book. He'd just become somewhat more secure in the spot he currently holds. Peter just plain isn't all that good, and under no plausible circumstances would a win over him turn into an all-time great legacy-defining fight.
     
  3. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    I have to disagree here. If Foreman came back at his age now, after another long layoff and beat Peter, it would be an amazing feat that would never be duplicated. I would bet the house on Peter. It is a moot point though. Foreman will not try it. Peter would badly KO him now.

    How good Peter is remains to be seen. He's young, and has plenty of fights ahead of him. Right now, Peter is the #2 Ring Magazine rated fighter, and was the last man to give the #1 rated guy a tough fight. Peter is in his prime right now. He is proven to the point of beating two ring magazine ranked heavies.

    What’s better, a win over the #2 guy in his prime, or a win over say an all time great who is past his prime, and really is only getting another chance based on his name / popularity?

    To put into a modern context, popularity aside is beating Peter now, harder than say beating the Mike Tyson Lennox Lewis defeated? I say beating Peter now is harder. I would like to read your thoughts on the last paragraph.
     
  4. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tyson in 2002 was better than Peter is or ever will be. Tyson was in better shape in 2002 than Peter has ever been, is more skillful, faster, hits harder has a better defense. What does Peter do better? How would 2002 Tyson do against Peter? Tyson KO early-mid rounds.

    Who has Peter beaten that a 2002 Tyson wouldnt beat?
     
  5. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Baloney. Tyson has three rounds in him at best in 2002. Tyson was shot vs Lewis. The fight before the Lewis fight was Nielsen, and Tyson looked horrible in that one too. Just after the Lewis fight, Tyson lost to Danny Williams and Kevin McBride. I happen to think James Toney and Maskeav beat Williams and McBride.

    I also think this version of Sam Peter cleans up on Williams and McBride. I know you’re not a fan of Vitali, but let’s be reasonable here….

    Peter in 2008 is harder to beat than Tyson in 2002.
     
  6. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think a 2002 Tyson was on a pretty similar level to Peter right now. The Williams and McBride fights aren't a fair reference here, as they were over two years after the Lewis fight. When he fought Lewis, Tyson was still a pretty legitimate contender, having beaten Savarese, Golota and Nielsen within the last couple years, all in dominant fashion. As he was when he fought Lewis, Tyson was probably still a legitimately harder hitter than Peter, had a better chin, and, at least in terms of physique, looked to be in much better shape. However, it is true that at this stage Tyson just about burned out after the first three rounds, while Peter is capable of fighting successfully into the later rounds when he paces himself. Very good chance of an early knockout by Tyson, but if not, Peter probably outlasts him.
     
  7. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    A lot of debate about a fight that might not even happen.

    Wlad might decide on a tune up fight (I personaly hope so)

    Wlad might simply not get past training camp (If he cant get back into his previous form I personaly hope he dosnt try)
     
  8. mcvey

    mcvey VIP Member Full Member

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    Don,t you think Vitaly should meet someone first before getting a shot at the "title"?Ali came back after 3 1/2 years and took on Jerry Quarry.How does Vitaly warrant a title shot ? Shouldnt he earn one?Even a match with that big ox Valuev would tell us something,,and if he should be the first to stop the giant it would hype him all the more.
     
  9. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Tyson didnt lose to Williams until 2004 after being out for 2 years and he probably could have beat Williams and McBride if he had any heart left in him, he wasnt up for club fights. He was up for Lewis though

    You forget to mention Tyson after Lewis beat Ettiene in 30seconds who beat Brewster who beat Wlad

    Tyson tore his knee anyway against Williams, thats a perfect excuse for a TKO if your a Vitali fan and not a hypocrite :yep

    Anyway in 2002 Tyson would only need 3rounds to KO Peter Peter is too open and that means hes getting ko'd against Tyson's offense. In the 3 years prior to facing Lewis Tyson beat Golota, Nielson and Botha which is as good as Peter's last 3 and Tyson looked far superior despite not being in his prime

    If you want to look at what fighters did after Vitali fought them, how about Danny Williams losing in 1round to Audley Harrison, or Corrie Sanders losing in 1round 3fights later, or fat Kirk Johnson losing by TKO 3fights later after facing Vitali. :yep
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    I think that Vitally deserves a title shot because he did not loose the belt in the ring.

    I feel that he would be verry ill advised to fight Peter without a tune up fight however.

    His previous plan of fighting McCline first was about right.
     
  11. Marciano Frazier

    Marciano Frazier Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Actually, yes. I think there's a fair chance we're jumping the gun in assuming Vitali is capable of coming out of a near four-year absence from the ring at 37 years old and performing like he once did.
     
  12. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Tyson did not beat Golota, it was a NC because Tyson flunked a drug test. Neilsen and Botha were two stationary slow fighters. Did you even see these fights? Tyson vs Botha was even 2-2, and Tyson was fouling as usual. He got Botha in an arm lock and tried to break his arm. Tyson caught Botha with a big shot in round five, but if the match went on a few more rounds, it could have been interesting. Tyson looked horrible vs Neilsen too. Stop pretending like Tyson in 2002 was better than Peter is in 2008.

    If you think Golota, Nelisen and Botha are better than Maskaev, Toney, and McCline, you're nuts.
     
  13. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    1. Tyson ko'd Golota whos better than anyone Peter has faced. It was changed to a NC due to a marijuna positive, hardly a performance enhancer

    2. Stationary targets? Perfect prep for Fat Boy peter. Anyway Botha was a jab and move merchant you fool, not a stationary object at all

    3. Tyson was getting outboxed after having 3years out and been rusty as hell, by former belt holder Botha until leveling Botha with 1punch power Peter can only dream of. He was way overweight against Neilson but still looked better than fatboy has ever looked.

    Anyway Tyson trained his ass off Lewis and was at his best since Golota/Holyfield

    4. Golotas better than anyone Peters beat. Botha is as good as a shot overweight Toney (who beat Peter in the first fight minus a robbery)
     
  14. Punisher33

    Punisher33 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I'm a huge fan of both Peter and Tyson, I feel Golota, Nelisen, and Botha, are very comparable to Maskaev, Toney, and Mccline, though I would give Peter the edge in competition, but you must remember, Tyson knocked out all 3 oppenents, Peter only knocked out one, and had a hard time beating both Toney and Mccline.

    As far as the Nielson fight, Tyson showed great power and decent technique in 01 when they fought, Tyson won every round leading up to the knockout in the 7th or 8th, Nielson had a strong chin and Tyson was the first to put him down, let alone knock him out, something that never happend in over 60 fights he fought, and I believe he only had one loss coming into that fight.
     
  15. Mendoza

    Mendoza Hrgovic = Next Heavyweight champion of the world. banned Full Member

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    Wrong! Who has Golota ever beaten? Maskeav is more accomplished than Golota. Toney has bigger wins than Golota as well. As for Marijuna, it can help mental cases like Tyson relax in the ring, and it also numbs pain.

    Botha, a jab and move merchant? Haha. The Botha who fought Tyson was a stationary slow guy made to order. Botha was known as the white buffalo, not the white gazelle.

    Sure, Tyson could still hit, but that was it. He looked bad vs Neilsen, who was another plodder.

    And he had what, one good round in him?

    No objective fan thinks Golota is better than anyone Peter beat. I don't think Botha was any better than Toney. In fact, I think Toney was the higher ranked guy.