Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by iloverachel2, May 11, 2022.
idk you got Genero who is top 10-15 at 130 you got Diego who was a top 5 SFW/LW in his era
You got Castillo who is the best Lightweight since Chavez
You got Manny who went on to become Lineal welter champion after losing to Floyd
You got Baldomir and Judah who were the last TRUE undisputed champions at 147 you got Marquez who is an ATG and Floyd’s biggest rivals biggest rival
Maidana a 2-weight champ who a very solid argument can be made that his only real defeat was vs Alexander in his first fight at a new weight with a new trainer.
At 154 you got Oscar who was top 2 champ and an ATG 6-division champ, Cotto whose a HOFer only Puerto rican to win titles in 4 divisions went on to become LINEAL middleweight champ after losing and Canelo who beat an unbeaten Trout directly before and beat a damn near unbeaten Lara in the fight directly after and went on to win titles at 160,68,&75 since he lost to Floyd. Haters just hate because of personality and fight persona but as a FIGHTER Floyd is undoubtedly one of the best fighters ever.
There is literally a round table on Mike Tyson podcast with Mosley sugar Ray and tommy hearns and they asked how do you beat Floyd and everyone of them said that they didn’t know what strategy you can use to actually beat him that’s high praise.
Let that bias go!
Marciano ain’t GREAT though very good but not GREAT although as a heavyweight where anything can happen his record is impressive but unbeaten don’t mean nothing if you don’t fight nobody
I see. If you don't think Marciano was an atg, then we're on different wave lengths I guess. Oh well, have fun!
well I think it comes down to perceptive and how you take things as I said being a heavyweight with that record where anything can happen is remarkable to say the least so I’m not trying to discredit Rocky just that it’s LEVELS.
Take Andre Ward for example he’s a ATG super middleweight but would I rank him with the GREATS of the GREATS
May and Manny are 10-15
There’s no bias. It’s just that if you’re wanting to place him top 10-15 of all time, across all divisions, throughout the entire history of the sport, then you have to get the microscope out and put him under serious scrutiny.
His stats are very impressive. But again, they’re not actually as impressive as what you believe them to be upon closer inspection.
For me, he could only be placed that highly on H2H ability.
Some points to consider regarding your stats:
Manny was faded and injured. He had shoulder surgery the following week. Floyd also took PEDS. No sane person really believes that he was severely dehydrated to the point of needing an IV of such magnitude, that it was classed as being a medical emergency. No one believes that, or that they just forgot to disclose it to the NSAC. It was obviously used as a masking agent, considering that Floyd never had weight issues, he was only 3.5 pounds at the 30 day weigh-in, and if it was legit, he’d have taken oral fluids instead.
Baldomir was undisputed because the division was weak. In a stronger era, a guy like Baldomir would have just been a run-of-the-mill contender.
JMM was a LW who was deliberately cheated on the scales.
Maidana was a B level guy, and Floyd wouldn’t let him wear his preferred gloves.
His win over Oscar was probably his greatest win for me. Because Oscar had great skills, and it was one of the only times that Floyd was completely outsized, in height, reach and weight. But we can’t ignore that it was a very close fight for 9 rounds, and that Oscar was faded and had been inactive.
Cotto was also faded, as he’d taken beatings to Manny and Marg. Yes, he won the lineal MW belt, but only because Martinez was finished with bad knees. Martinez got a gift against Martin Murray beforehand in Argentina.
Canelo was young and naive, and he was forced to fight at a C-W. Canelo wasn’t the fighter he is today. He barely beat Lara and Trout. And the only top level fighter that Trout has ever beaten is Cotto, which tells you where Cotto was at at the time.
Regarding Hearns, he was just being polite. The strategy would have been obvious:
To have boxed him at range, with a plan B of fighting him aggressively if needed, which would have put Floyd into a defensive shell.
Floyd would have had no road to victory against Hearns.
It would have been the worst stylistic match up in history for Floyd.
He didn’t have the size to have outboxed him, nor the firepower needed to have stopped him.
Had Floyd have fought 50 times against the best in Tommy’s era, he’d never have had the same level of success as what he had in this era.
His stats would look very different today.
Needs to avenge his loss to Jake Paul first
When you rank the greatest of all time you have to look at more then just there record.
….. you have to take into consideration there opponents, there dominance, there willingness to fight the best ,and there willingness to take chances to be great.
Floyd was the best of his era, and he is without question an atg …
BUT, when compared to the accomplishments, and number of fights he had compared to those of the past I’d place him top 15/20 all time.Which is an amazing accomplishment when you have guys like Robinson, Greb, Pep, Langford, Ali, Louis, Moore,Charles, Armstrong, Duran, Wilde,
B. Leonard, Ross, and others I may have forgot. Floyd is one of the greatest fighters I’ve seen in my lifetime no doubt about it.
Great Post and agree
I also have manny top 15-20, due to longevity and taking more risks later on
Floyd undoubtedly is the best of his era and his haters know this deep down
I can't understand how anyone can see top 20 or even 30 as an insult?
In no order
Look how many names I missed just top of my head. If I read over it I would add plenty and that's over 20 names
Richard Pryor is arguably the GOAT but not as a boxer, ya'll.
This is a great question. What exactly prevented at least some of those fights coming to fruition? 2008 Cotto would also have been a good fight.
I say if out of the fights you listed he does 4-5 and wins all of them, he would have a clear case for top 10, maybe even top 5. He did not want that. I should add that he most likely would have won all those fights, the only one where I am a bit uncertain is 2011 Pacquiao, but even there I would have given him a 60% chance to prevail.
As matters stand I think 15-20 is reasonable.
Best of his era. But not sure where overall. Limited footage of fighters in the early 1900’s makes its pointless to even speculate. But on what I’ve seen, to the naked eye, he’d be up there with Benny Leonard