Where would you rank Joe Frazier if?

About the same, IMO

 

He wouldn't move up "considerably" for me if at all. Maybe he jumps a spot. If you look at the timeline Shavers was losing near every year when Joe was active to far lesser men than Joe. In 73 he broke thru vs Ellis then lost to Quarry then lost a shocker to Stallings and drew Young in 74 and Lyle stopped him in 75. Frazier lost his title at the start of 73. Hindsight on Shavers might have helped him a bit tho but not immensely as Earnie lost to heaps of lesser men and never beat an equal to Joe.

Lyle was probably relevant in 74 but Joe fought Ali then Quarry then Ellis then Ali so he was going pretty hard. A win over Lyle would help a bit but imo it wouldn't do wonders for him.

 

Joe Frazier seemed like he was going to fight Ron Lyle in late 1972 or early 1973.

Lyle fought on the Frazier-Stander card in May 1972, so he could be showcased alongside Frazier.

Then Joe Frazier went to Colorado in September 1972 to attend Lyle-Mathis and said he planned to fight the winner. (Lyle stopped Mathis in two.)

But Frazier was told by the WBA to fight Foreman (who was Frazier's mandatory), so they signed to fight in late January 1973. Lyle signed to fight Quarry in early February 1973. Then Frazier and Lyle both lost within two weeks of each other. And that was that.

If not for the WBA, it probably would've been Frazier-Lyle instead of Frazier-Foreman in early 1973.

 

If he took more bombs from Shavers and came back to win he be ranked higher H2H. The question George Foreman put over his chin was never really answered.

 

"IF" Frazier beat Lyle in early 1973. I haven't watched the Quarry-Lyle fight in years, but seems like Quarry outboxed Lyle to win more than going toe-to-toe with him.

I don't know if Joe Frazier would get on his toes and box Lyle, like Quarry did. Seems like Joe would attack Lyle like Joe attacked Foreman.

Lyle may have stopped Joe.

 

But wouldnt beating Lyle and Shavers while losing to Foreman simply tell us Foreman was a better fighter than those two? And that Frazier can handle power, just not power combined with skill and a bad style.

 

No10?

 

Doesn't change for me. Great fighter easily top 10. His chin isn't a question to me. He got up everytime Foreman dropped him including an illegal shot behind the head. Ask yourself instead who's getting up 6 times because u know George was dropping men like flies back then.

 

Shows how timing and luck can make or break a fighters historical standing. I was thinking earlier that what if Frazier had his rematch with Ali first and Ali regained the title and Foreman had to fight Ali for the title instead of Frazier? Foreman may have just been remembered as a 70s contender on par with Bonavena or Shavers.

Or if Lennox Lewis never fought McCall or Rahman, we'd rank him as having an ATG heavyweight chin.

 

Thanks!

Off topic, but why wasn't Ali in line for that shot in early 1973? Why both Foreman and Lyle ahead? Was Joe planning on giving Ali a rematch?

 

Exactly the same.