Where would you rank Roman Gonzalez on an ATG list?

I don't put a lot of stock in belts and jumping weight classes per se.
But I do like Roman Gonzalez.

At the very least he's closing in on Floyd Mayweather Jr. , but he'll never get that kind of recognition.

 

I would say he is right next to Mayweather and in prime position to overtake.

Consider that last night he was giving up speed and reach, two cards Mayweather virtually always held, against an opponent who can box clever. The pure craft of Gonzalez, that ability to block, evade and respond all in one continuous motion is ring intuition of the highest order. Things got tough as it went on, but now he is showing us that grittier dimension we all suspected was there. Choco gutted it out in that last round.

Estrada, Yaegashi and Cuadras - these are quality names. Then take Naoya Inoue. He appears to be made from that especially rare stuff. If the stars align correctly and Gonzalez goes onto tame the Monster I think you could justify a top twenty rating. Yes, that good.

 

Well, with Pernell Whitaker and Ray Leonard in the top 20 in the above list, yes, Gonzalez is probably one big win away from that level.
They wouldn't make my top 20 though.

The only thing Mayweather Jr. has on Gonzalez as of now is longevity, but I think longevity can be over-valued when guys are fighting less than 50 fights in a 20 year career !

 

If he beats Inoue and rematches Estrada before retiring, I would call him the goat of the lower 4 divisions. That puts him above the likes of Wilde, Lopez and Canto for a start.

That puts him top 30 in your list. Probably top 20 in mine as I put a larger emphasis on h2h.

He's so incredibly multi dimensional he's amongst the best to ever lace em up.

Literally the only negative is how unknown the lower weight classes are.

 

Top 7 or 8 of the last 25 years

he's already past Toney, De La Hoya, Trinidad, Lopez, Winky, Mosley, Lennox, Morales, Marquez bros, etc

 

That and about 10 additional world title fights, belts won in five divisions as opposed to three, and wins over several higher level names.

 

Gonzalez has won belts in 4 divisions. With his activity I wouldn't be surprised to see him surpass Floyd in title fights.

Neither of those are worth anything though.

The argument about higher level names might be true. But Gonzalez has fought everyone around his divisions and if he beats Inoue next that will probably be enough for him to overtake Floyd.

 

I'm hesistant to rank guys from the tiny divisions with anyone but other guys from those divisons. I think the talent pool is down there is shallower and jumping divisions is easier. The sheer numbers are less and the weights aren't spaced far apart. This leads to resumes that are cluttered with forgettable wins in between bigger fights. With that said, he's easily better than Ricardo Lopez or Calderon ever were. I don't think Inoue is enough to put him ahead of Floyd. I think he could still move up another divison and win, but he'd be smart to alter his style like Floyd and Pac did.

 

You don't know what you're talking about. 112-115 are the deepest divisions in boxing right now.

 

He will finish reasonably high, I believe.
Right now he's carving out a Mayweather-esque career. 46-0 already, jumping weight classes. It remains to be seen just how far his opposition can go in their careers.
He has very good consistent top wins against good to elite opposition. He's not a phoney multiple division champion.
The Estrada victory is better than any win on Mayweather's resume (in the condition Mayweather fought them, especially) - it does seem that Estrada is on the way down, but we'll see.

Having a win against Inoue would be absolutely sensational, as Inoue is a rare talent.

 

My bad. You're correct about Gonzalez winning belts in 4 divisions. But I think its going to take more than a win over the 11 fight Inoue to surpass Floyd even though I agree that it would be a stellar victory.. Mayweather's scalps over Canelo, Pac, Hernandez, and Cotto are arguably better than just about any that Gonzalez has recorded.. Additionally Floyd has beaten around 12 men who were past present or future titlists whilst Roman has only beaten 9 guys of that description. Floyd proved himself well into old age and was ranked p4p top 10 for about 16 years and #1 p4p for around 8 of those years. He's arguably the best defensive fighter of all time and has given up a lot more weight and years in age to move up and beat some of the guys he's beaten.. With that said, if Roman were to retire tomorrow I'd still consider him an ATG.. In a few years and with several more good wins, he may reach the echelon of guys like Duran, Robinson, Ali, Armstrong, etc. But for now we just have to sit back and wait.

 

I rank slightly differently to you though.

The way I see it, Gonzalez is pretty much a lock for the best fighter to ever campaign in the lowest divisions.

The way he fights means you can't out slug him, out box him or outlast him. But because he is brilliant at everything he isn't perfect at anything and as such he can have rounds nicked off him.

But the kind of pressure he brings is exactly the type of style I imagine to beat Floyd. Almost Duranesque.

Floyd has achieved more than almost anyone. And in beating Pac he has a victory better than almost anyone. But is he a BETTER fighter than Gonzalez? Very questionable for me.

 

I agree with this - and the question at the end is a very valid poser.

The Mayweather comparison is interesting because he and Gonazlez, to a great extent, are 'apples and oranges'.

With Mayweather, you have on the one hand, a shipload of achievements, a good number of known names on the ledger - and that Pacquiao win. None of this being achievable without Mayweather being an exceptional talent. On the other hand, you have a very carefully crafted, mass-marketed career that, on inspection, creates a context in which those achievements could be perceived quite differently than their face-value suggests.


Chocolatito's opposition is not greatly lauded over; mainly on account of those lower-weight divisions attracting less attention and acclaim. Boxers competing there are generally not earmarked for stardom and consequently are not built up, as such. But, this does not necessarily mean the quality of the fighters there is significantly, if at all, weaker.

With Gonzales, if you look at the pure skillset, style and manner in which he sets out to achieve a victory, you cannot fail to be massively impressed with the fighter and the fights themselves - independent of any veneered glamor; the names and the numbers on a ledger. For this reason, I think Roman Gonzalez will be considered an All-Time Great, in due course.

 

Here's what I'm saying:
1. The fighters down there are always gonna look good based on the eye test because it's the norm to throw six punch combos and have endless cardio when you're the size of a jockey.
2. It's hard to find male adults who are that size. It's a small percentage of the population. That means it's an easier path to the top if you are that size. When you get to the smaller divisions you might see a guy who's 9-0 or 18-4 in the top ten. Or the top fighters might have career paths that are closer to Chris John's than Oscar De La Hoya's. This is less true at 115 than it is at straw.
3. Weight jumping is pretty common down there. A three division jump in the micro divisons isn't equal to moving from 168 to heavy, etc. Need proof? Look at what Manny Pacquiao did.

So no, I don't think Gonzalez is at the point of being comparable to Pac or Mayweather. I think he'd need to be the best ever 115 and lower by a good margin or move to 118 and clean it out to be in that kind of discussion. But he is an ATG.