Where would you rate Ali under these scenarios

1. Retired immediately after beating Foreman

2. Beat Holmes, then retired for good. Holmes goes on to get a belt and otherwise have a similar career as he did.

3. Was ko'd instead of kd'd by Wepner, rematched him and beat him, but then retired.

4. Jones was awarded the decision in their controversial match, Cooper the tko. Doesn't get a title shot for a couple years, belt trades hands a few times, wins against a lesser regarded champ, gives it up almost immediately because of draft. Second half of career the same.

5. Beat Frazier in FOTC, rest of results remain the same.

I rate Ali and Louis 1 and 2 basically interchangeably. But a lot goes into a boxing legacy, and some things could have easily change it. Here's my evaluation:

1. Louis definitely number one. Lewis about tied with Ali for #2. Ali Foreman is still the most impressive performance in history, but longevity counts, and even though his performances weren't always impressive, he still successfully defended against top contenders for a few years and 9 defenses. And tehn became the first to win a belt 3 times. That's too important to give up, even with the benefit of avoiding some bad losses.

2. Head and shoulders #1 of all time. Instead of Ali and Louis as head and shoulders above everyone else, it would really be Ali head and shoulders. TBF, this is the least likely scenario of all the scenarios, most of the others could have happened by random chance. This was outside of Ali's capabilities.

3. Would rank him in the top 5, but Louis easily # 1, and Lewis, Marciano and maybe other above him.

4. Fringe top 10. His career would have resembled Max Scmeling's at the point of Ali Foreman more than anything, and the mystique of the fight would have been broken. That one win, and the subsequent defenses would have been the great bulk of his legacy, and it only would have barely got him into the top 10.

5. Really only marginally better than now, at best. It would have negatively impacted the mystique of Ali Foreman, as Foreman wouldn't have been nearly as highly regarded, since Frazier wouldn't have been either.

 

Anybody? Would be interested in honest assessments of where they'd rank Ali under these scenarios.

 

Thanks, good ****ysis.:good

What about scenario #1 though? Do you have him at 1 right now and he would drop to coequal with Louis, or do you not consider the defenses very important? I put a lot of stock in sustained dominance, more so than single victories, and the two era dominance of Ali's, which he proved with his later defenses, boost him a lot imo.