Where would you rate Patterson if you he got the nod over Quarry and Ellis?

I'd still rate him in top 15-20, he already has great accomplishments in being the youngest HW champ before Tyson and the first HW champ to regain the title, plus a great post-title run.

The wins would nice (I also think he beat Ellis) but the competition above him in the ATG rankings is really tight.

 

It would have looked great on his record.
It would have been a decent achievement.
I liked Floyd.

 

Same. My third favorite fighter. An absolute gentleman.

 

Absolutely Swag.
When you look at how some boxers have acted, especially in recent years, then you look at how Floyd carried himself.. Different world s, mate.

 

To me Patterson or anybody else is exactly the same fighter whether some judge thought he won or lost a fight. Judges are nothing special, they became judges by going to a Saturday class and then judging some fights, they don't have some special expertise or experience that makes their input more valuable than others. When I see a fighter, it's much more important to see the fighter in the ring, what he does, how he moves, his technique and fundamentals, that's how I judge a fighter...whether some judge thinks the fighter won or lost means nothing to me in judging a fighter. If I watched Patterson vs. Quarry or Ellis and thought he was better than they were, that would be my opinion of the fighter and I'd rate him accordingly.

 

In regards to bypassing “official” calls and using your own judgment as and when applicable, I apply my analysis as you do Pat.

Say, if I’m rating Norton, I, personally, fully account for Ken clearly beating Ali in their Rubber Match.

And, with that, I view it as completely unfair and totally off the mark to refer to Norton as a “Paper Champ”, as if he was never capable of actually winning the HW Title in the ring.

 

Gentlemen, if your comments were corporealized in the form of a beautiful young woman, why, I'd-Not so young that I'd feel inappropriate but like 25 to 45 somewhere-I'd kiss your comments on the ear lobe, teasingly, but lovingly, and do that weird growling sound Roy Orbison used to do on Pretty Woman. Or 55. Whatever. If she's beautiful, I guess she doesn't have to be that young. I don't know why I specified like that. If your comments were either of birthing age, as corporealized women, at a minimum of 25, or within ten to fifteen years past birthing age, or just beautiful well beyond reasonable time limits of objective physical standards of beauty, I would feel up those comments and lightly tickle the small of their backs with my fingertips, and whisper into their ears "I can't feel my face when I'm with you...and I love it."

 

I’m still processing the metaphors in there, but it seems I should be saying thank you, right?

I remembering seeing Floyd Patterson gently rub (caress?) Jimmy Ellis’ body after Floyd had just punched him in that area - so, I think I’m on the same page. Maybe.

 

This is about where I am with Floyd Patterson.

If he had managed to get a third fight with Sonny Liston and stopped Sonny in say four rounds, which I think was a possible outcome in the very late 60's... As strange as it may seem, I think many people, including me, would then rate Floyd higher on their lists.

 

...Too soon.

 

Good example, the Norton - Ali fights. The last time I watched all 3 fights I had Norton winning them all and I didn't score any of them particularly close. Ali was bringing the money and fans to boxing so he "got 2 decisions", but he didn't really win. Everything about those fights was biased, I remember one announcer getting excited and screaming "Ali's talking to him, Ali's talking to him" like that was important. Meanwhile Norton was pounding Ali. Norton had all of the effective aggression, the harder punches, he hurt Ali, Ali couldn't hurt him. But boxing being boxing, all Ali had to do was be standing at the end of the fight and he'd get the decision. It wasn't Ali's fault, it was just the boxing business.

In fights like those, where one fighter is a "cash cow" things might be "predetermined." In a lot of other fights, the judges might just get it wrong because they aren't very good at what they do.

 

Id still put him somewhere in the top 30.
He won the title when it was vacant cause Marciano retired. He never beat any top heavyweights. Got Kod by Ingemar Johansson. Won the rematch but had to go through alot. Got absoloutley destroyed by Sonny Liston. He had good longevity but his inability to take a punch was a huge problem. Hes not an ATG

 

From the reports at the time Patterson should have been given wins in these fights. Against Quarry, 10 years his junior, the split decision drew boos from the hometown crowd. Letters also backed up the discontent in The Ring and Boxing Illustrated.
Had he got the nod, he would have fought Thad Spencer next, then Ellis in the final of the tournament.
However 23 months later he fought Ellis.
The sole judge was the referee Harold Valan, who had travelled over to Sweden with Dundee and Ellis.
In the 14th, Patterson connected with 2 hooks, Ellis went down, but Valan ruled it a slip.
Valan had to be protected by police, on leaving the ring.
There were no talks of a return bout. Ellis was in bad shape, unable to attend his “victory” celebrations!

 

Jeffries?, Tunney, Louis all vacated their titles before Marciano. In all cases the obvious pairing of the leading contenders, filled the breach for a new champion, Jeffries, an anomaly, excepted.
How else could Patterson have won the title? Marciano’s back was shot to pieces as well as domestic matters, he was gone!
FP won an eliminator and then knocked out Archie to become, the, and still to this day, youngest, lineal champion.
Perhaps you could suggest an alternative to crown a new champion, as your post appears to be dismissive of the the current model!