Where would you rate Pernell Whitaker among the all time great lightweights?

3-5. His lightweight division wasn't as deep as the Golden Age of the 40's, but top to bottom it was at least as good as Duran's, and Whitaker cleaned it out. More to the point, he did so in a fashion that was pretty dominant (Barely losing a round as he was going about the business of unifying the titles.)

 

Did Whitaker "thrash" Chavez?

 

Sweet Pea, thanks for your question...Yes I know that Ike Williams lost by close decisions twice to Willie Joyce...Willie Joyce who I saw foght in New York was a great boxer in a golden age > Joyce had about 100 bouts against the likes of Armstrong,Beau Jack, Williams, and a host of great seasoned fighters of a VERY competitive era of boxing..Joyce would have easily held his own with Whitaker,believe me...The Ike Williams who I saw ringside demolish Beau Jack, in Philly, in 1948, was the best lightweight I ever saw,that night...One other point...What great lightweight did Whitaker ever beat, beside his draw with a top Julio C Chavez, that would compare with many of Ike Williams opponents..?.
To Sugarsean....I used the word "lick" as a euphemism for beat or decision...Nothing more, implied....B.B.

 

Joyce actually beat Ike 3/4.

I agree that Ike was an amazing fighter, but he had his limits, kinda like Arguello did, with slick boxers. Stylistically, he's at a great disadvantage against someone who could pop the jab off the back foot all night. He matches up a lot better with the top swarmers/pressure fighters than he does the great slicksters and pure boxers. I think Laguna would beat him as well.

 

let me put it this way. Sweet Pea would have outclassed Duran and won a lopsided decision but since Duran never fought this quality at lightweight the duran guys can say he would wipe Sweet pea out. No way. Sweet pea easier than Ray beat duran in the second fight.

 

You're becoming unbearable.

The best Lightweights Duran fought were De Jesus and Buchanan, both better fighters than Pete ever beat at the weight. Pete's strongest victim at Lightweight was probably Azumah Nelson, who only ever fought at the weight once, in that fight. Duran, at 18 years old beat a better fighter than Pete ever did until Chavez, in Ernesto Marcel. One the smoothest, most skilled pure boxing stylists of the generation. If your argument is based on the fact that Duran never faced anyone of Whitaker's caliber at the weight, please give me a name on Pete's Lightweight resume that stacks up to Duran.

 

#2 very closely behind Benny Leonard.

 

"Will the Real ESB Sweet Pea please stand up." And you did.

Well-reasoned.

Whitaker was a supreme technician and a savant and a lionheart. Throw in that southpaw stance and you have an equation that is incredibly difficult to solve. He rates highly -I'd give him 14 or even 15 out of 15 on Ring Generalship. He's up with there in that category with the very best. Ever. Experience is very high too.

 

Azumah Nelson!!!! he moved up by that is better than anyone Duran fought at lightweight. All time great. Ok ,, that is easy. Once Pernell won the title he never lost at lightweight.

 

He only ever fought one fight at the weight, and lost in conclusive fashion obviously. What makes that a great Lightweight win? I won't deny that the manner in which he beat Azumah was very impressive, but without question both De Jesus and Buchanan were the better Lightweights, in my book.

Duran had only one set-back, in a 10 round non-title bout to a great fighter whom he twice stopped in rematches. He also fought over twice as often as Whitaker.

 

Mosley barely gets consideration in my Top 20 at 135.

 

I don't see an outclassing, but I see Pernell winning on points UD. This kind of fighter is exactly whom Duran would not want to go in against. And Pernell would work the body also. I could see him getting Duran frustrated like Leonard did and then start to going to work on the body and winning a decision. Pernell also worked the body of Chavez effectively, although the scorecards did not in the end work in his favor obviously.

 

Whittaker was an amazing fighter but judging him as a lightweight then I'm not sure he should be in the top 5. I see why some put him there because he shut out so many top contenders. But too many people are factoring what he did at weights above 135.

Oh, and none of the top 135 fighters, Duran, Gans, Leonard, Williams, Balckburn, Whittaker, etc... get outclassed by anyone at this weight.

 

All debatable.

BOLD: Mosley is massively overrated at lightweight I feel. And Sweet Pea is a stylistic nightmare for Shane, who's never been the best mover.