Whether you like Mayweather or not, his performance was near-flawless

I find it odd that he didnt.

Because do you truly belive floyd would have been drained weighing at 144? I dont.

Hes a small welterweight by todays standards, compared to cotto,clottey,mosley,margarito etc. ...and I just cant believe that he wouldnt be able to drop a few pounds

I cant figure out why he didnt. Because if he COULDNT then that would suggest he struggled to even get to 146, which I just cant believe.

 

having to face the former p4p floyd, marquez wasnt agressive enough when he had floyd against the ropes, but then again he usually the counter puncher

 

i read one poster said about floyd didnt make the agreed weight in preparation for pac-floyd fight if ever pac wins against cotto. he would simply say i cannnot make weight below 146 so he will ask them to fight at 146 or 147. i agree with this poster's observation

 

:adminatsch

Only a triple-whammy of emoticons can properly convey how utterly ridiculous this comment is. It's probably the worst post I've read in my short time here. Are you serious? Or severely handicapped??

 

**** me how many mayweather threads are you posting today...

heres an idea put all your points in one!

it saves a lot of time and throws a brighter light on your nuthuggery.

 

Honestly, I am seriously appalled at how someone with so many posts can be so hideously ******ed. You have clearly been a boxing fan for some time, yet have no concept of how the sport works at all. I will break this down for you into easy steps, though Floyd's pubic thatch has probably irritated your eyes to such a degree you won't even be able to read it.

Point A:

In Tito Trinidad's last 2 fights before he fought Hopkins, he wiped out Fernando Vargas (not only a big junior-mw, but also possibly 'roided) then annihilated William Joppy, a middleweight champion and career mw-smw (who Hopkins & J.Taylor failed to stop). He had proven he could perform effectively at both lmw (3 wins) and mw (1 win) before he fought Hopkins.

In JM Marquez's last 2 fights before he fought Floyd, he stopped Joel Casamayor and Juan Diaz after very competitive battles at lightweight. These were his only 2 fights above 130, and he had never fought at 140 or 144 or 147.


Point B:

Tito Trinidad is 5ft 11in with a 72 1/2in reach. If you bother to look at the physical stats of most middleweights, he is not undersized at all. Marvin Hagler was 5ft 9in. James Toney was 5ft 10in with a 72in reach. Winky Wright was 5ft 10in with a 72in reach (was size a huge factor in the fight between Winky & Jermain Taylor?). Hell, Ray Robinson had the exact same physical measurements as Trinidad, and he was also a welterweight who moved up to mw.

Physically, Tito Trinidad was not particularly small for a middleweight. Juan Manuel Marquez is ****ing tiny at a weight class above 140lbs! He would be small at 140.


Point C:

Hopkins is 6ft 1in with a 75in reach, meaning he had 2in in height and 2 1/2in in reach over Tito.

Mayweather is 5ft 8in to Marquez's 5ft 7in, and has a 72in reach to Marquez's 67in.

So, Hopkins had a single inch more advantage than Mayweather in height, whereas Floyd had 5-inch reach advantage over JMM, 2 1/2in more than Hopkins enjoyed. You tell me - what is more important in boxing, a 1-inch height advantage, or a 2 1/2in reach advantage?


Point D:

So we have now established that Hopkins's mighty advantages over Trinidad were 2 inches in height and 2 1/2in in reach. Now, in a weight class as high as middleweight, this is not a big size disparity at all. Kelly Pavlik defended his title against career mw-smw Gary Lockett last year and had 5 inches in height and 2 inches in reach on him. When Jermain Taylor beat career mw-smw William Joppy, he had 2 inches in height and 2 inches in reach. The physical advantages Hopkins had over Trinidad were not unusually large at all. Guys who are big for their division like Pavlik, Paul Williams, Margarito, and going back a bit to Oscar in the 90s and Arguello in the 70s regularly enjoyed greater size advantages than Hopkins did over Tito.

By comparison, how often at a weight below welter does a guy face a 5-inch reach deficit? How often at a weight below welter does a guy face a four-pound deficit on the scales?


Point E:

The obvious elephant in the room which you have bizarrely failed to recognize.

Trinidad weighed in 1 1/2lbs heavier than Hopkins.
Marquez weighed in 4lbs lighter than Mayweather.

And do you seriously think that Marquez hydrated to significantly higher? Sober up.


Point F:

Open your ****ing eyes. Marquez looked small and flabby next to Floyd. Trinidad had a slightly smaller frame than Hopkins, but otherwise he matched up fine, no more of a size disparity than usual between two fighters in the division. Disregard all of the other points if you wish, but just watch these two fights and it's obvious to anyone that the size difference in Mayweather-Marquez is far greater.


In conclusion:

You are either biased beyond belief, or just a ****ing '****.

 

Nah, I didn't think there would be a comeback to that one.

 

5 years, but I agree.

 

I was a little OTT and vitriolic in my post, and for that I apologize, I'm here to talk boxing not have arguments and make enemies.

I respect your p-o-v, but it just seems totally bizarre to me.

Your point seems to focus on what the men's starting weights were rather than what their actual weights were when they fought.


Hopkins did fight at light-heavyweight... in 1990.

By 2001, he had been at middleweight for all but one fight since 1992.

And when I say at middleweight, I don't mean he was continually struggling to make the weight, he was consistently weighing in at comfortably under the limit!!

(a quick check on boxrec will give you the specifics, in addition to the fact he weighed in well under the limit against Trinidad and was outweighed by him on the scales, he was also several pounds under the limit against De La Hoya, Jackson and Mercado, and under it by a pound or two for many more)

Thus, Hopkins was a true middleweight when Trinidad fought him. You can go on and on about a purely fictitious 30lbs difference if you want, but it's nonsense. Trinidad outweighed Hopkins on the scales, Marquez gave away 4lbs, and there's no way that Marquez hydrated more after the weigh-in than Trinidad.



At the time of the fight, Trinidad (always known as a huge welter) hadn't fought at welter for 2 years. He looked big, strong and thoroughly devastating against Vargas and Joppy.


A key point I forgot was that after the Hopkins defeat, if Trinidad had been so severely outsized, why did he then not move back to lmw?? His next three fights leading up to his initial retirement were all at mw. Why, if he was so small compared to the mw champion??

Do you think Marquez is going to remain where Floyd is, above 140lbs? Not a chance.


Marquez spent his career at 126, with a couple of fights at 130 and a couple at 135, before the huge jump to a 144 limit for one fight.

Trinidad spent his career at 147, with a couple of fights at 154 and a fight at 160 before he fought Bernard at a weight he had already fought at, he did not have to jump one division - never mind two!!

Another thing you have failed to recognize is that from the very start of Mayweather's career, he regularly did not make super-featherweight, until the Pep fight in '98 when he knuckled down to make the limit to pursue a world title. After leaving sfw, he was at lw for 18 months, lww for a year, and ww for 2 years with one fight at 154, and came back at 146lbs.

Mayweather may have started his title career at 130, but he hasn't fought there for EIGHT years now. He clearly cannot make lww anymore judging by his weigh-in weight vs Marquez (over the agreed limit which hit him in the pocket), the guy is a welterweight now.

Guys can grow into weight divisions you know. Mayweather may not be a natural ww, but he has (over the years) grown into it, and now couldn't go any lower. Roy Jones was not a natural lhw, but he grew into it and produced some excellent performances there over his years at the weight, and when he lost people didn't say "he was a natural mw/smw", because he had been established at lhw for years despite making his name 15lbs lower. Likewise, Pernell Whitaker could never be called a natural ww, but he produced some excellent performances in his years as champion there.


You don't care about reach? That's fair enough, but I bet Marquez cared about it on Saturday, and I bet every single fighter in the world south of welter cares about a FIVE inch reach deficit. Especially when they are getting jabbed in the mouth and are unable to hit back. Yes, Tyson coped with it fine, but how many fighters have Tyson's power, movement and style? I know Marquez sure as hell doesn't. Also, how many lower weight fighters usually face huge lumbering opponents often bereft of technique like Tyson did? The answer there would be none.


And you imply Hopkins' stoppage of Trinidad was due to weight. Again, this makes no sense. Trinidad had been dropped before, but he had never met someone with the poise, composure and strength of Hopkins. You may have had a point if Hopkins had blasted him out with a single shot, but if there was ever an accumulation stoppage, this was it. Hopkins had utilized superb technique and defence to consistently outland Trinidad all through the fight, gradually wearing Tito down with hard, accurate counters on the inside. To say the stoppage was due to a weight advantage is complete bollocks.


I have made my apology and I have no wish to get personal, but I really think you should desist as you have lost this argument by a landslide. You initial premise was lamentable pro-Floyd garbage.

 

So you accept you were talking out of your anus then??

 

Maybe out of topic, but I've got some questions:

Why did Mayweather have to use a catchweight to lure a smaller man to move up in weight to face him? And why did he not even care to make the weight then?

Floyd claimed he never liked the idea of a catchweight anyways - that was after the fight was signed. If Floyd didn't like that catchweight of 144lbs in the first place, why didn't he then opt to face a real welterweight instead of a man who had to move up so much in weight?

Someone answer me that please.

 

The only answers you will get are the usual pathetic Floyd-hugger comments like "Marquez is a ppv attraction" and "Marquez was p4p#2" and "there isn't a big size difference", and other similarly embarrassing comments. The truth is that little Floyd doesn't fancy the job against a big, powerful welter like Shane. He has an inbuilt aversion to danger, and it's the key reason why he will never, ever be remembered like a Ray Leonard or a Roberto Duran, or even a Pernell Whitaker.

 

floyd doesnt help himself, but saying a fighter like floyd has an "inbuild aversion to danger" is pushing it too far.

hes a double egdes sword though because hes brilliant but doesnt always take the hard road. so he deserves both his fans and his critics.