Which better: ring belt or lineal?

Becasue Foreman had beaten the lineal champion, Moorer.

 

Good 4 U!!!! Go find a grammar forum and celebrate:good

Linear is also subject to it's own issues when 9 of 17 title's are VACANT, so while its nice when it works, it would be more ideal if it worked MORE OFTEN:good

 

Lineal is the correct term in the english language. The word linear though is being used commonly to mean the same thing but by definition in the English language it actually is wrong. It probably is the prevalent term in America where all sorts of words and spelling are used outwith standard english.

 

ToMAYTO- To MATO, PoTAYTo- PaTAToe, IMO.

It's pretty much understood whats being referred to.

 

For all intents and purposes, the Ring magazine and the lineal title are the same thing, and, usually, the crowning of a RING champion establishes lineage in a division where's there's a vacancy at the top position. This isn't always the case, but it tends to work out that way more often than not.

The problem with unification of the major belts is that the sanctioning organizations will usually strip the victorious fighter of the belts once that is achieved (case in point, Ricky Hatton, Isreal Vasquez, and Joel Casamyor), which means that it's less of an achievement to unify right now than it might have been in the past. Also, many organizations will strip a reiging champion of their belts if they decide to face another titleholder in the division (Corrles against Mayweather was just once example); a policy which only serves to limit of the credibility of the sanctioning bodies.

As it stands, the RING belt can only be won or lost inside the ring (or if the fighter chooses to relinquish the title). That, alone gives the RING infinitely more credibility than any of the other organizations out there.

And, because of the confusion that sometimes comes from a "lineal" title (the RJJ/DM situation was a classic example of this), it's generally less confusion to accept the RING champion as the champion of a particular division, imo.

 

yeah, i was addresing the swedish chaps question about the two words, to me it doesnt matter which term is used.

 

Thus the problem with unification. Unifying the titles from fighters who didn't originally beat the belt holder for the belt because said belt holder was stripped kinda destroys it's validity.

I don't think anyone knows anymore who the true lineal champions are anymore since it's up to subjective processes that are constantly argued over not only here but by experts as well. Ring is currently the only title that is only lost in the ring or by retirement. It's rankings are subjective, but so are everyone elses.

 

A fighter once UNIFIED is the man to beat, regardless of wheteher he's stripped or not and is the same premise as saying a ring belt can only be lost in the ring.

The thing is RING is a magazine and while slightly more credible than the orgs which are supposed to be the "official" boxing bodies, they have their own issues as well from time to time and ARENT THE OR A CONTROLLING BODY. They have an arbitrary rankings process and it can be just as wrong or unfair at times.

ALl of this confusion, screams out the ridiculous nature of how boxing as a sport is mis-managed and one of the causes of decline in popularity and revenue.

Ring is NOT THE SAME AS LINEAL, if it is?? Why 9 vacancies in 17 divisions??? Ring doesnt hold any real weight moreso than an org. I do find them generally more in line with reason but replacing a vacancy with their 'title" is subject to the same BS as an org.

Unification means you beat the other champs that existed prior and thus MAKES YOU a Real undisputed Champ. Like i said the orgs can strip you but SO WHAT!!! Once you define it, you're then Lineal(as the imaginary 1,2 process occurs within) and that's that. Any real champion will fight/defend against the top guy's out there, and the rest will fall in place.

Look at PBF at 47, Lineal yes, but by facing the top opp he could UNIFY and become undisputed, by facing the best out there. Cotto, Williams, and Cintron are the other titleholders and SSM is clearly a legend and since DLH was so important?? SSM is more so, by being the better of the two.

 

What are you on about?

Ring doesn't equal lineal and I haven't said it has.

Stripping the champions who held the belts and then someone unifying them against fighters who never won them in the first place taints the unification process. It's not about belts, it's about who the best fighters are. So when you say "who cares" about the stripping...well thats on you. I certainly don't agree with that.

As far as the 9 vacancies go....well, thats according to Cyberboxingzone.

You say they should fight the best fighters. I agree....but that doesn't vibe with stripping the best fighters of their belts and then unifying them.

 

Easy there, "pal" I'm just having some peaceful/reasonable discussion on this topic, something that is in the center of overall problems in the sport. I suppose, i should know better than to attempt it ,given our history, but SINCE much of that history, centers around this topic? It's kind of inevitable that our opinion's cross path's.

The point in that post IS that once UNIFIED they can strip all they want, they cant take you're real UNDISPUTED title. Again, fighting the best may often lead to fighting/defending against the fighters who claim the "stripped" belts, that is if anyone is doing their job and the best challengers are moving forward. Yet, the fighter who UNIFIED is still undisputed until he loses or retires.

AGAIN, unless the sport gets a major overhaul in the way its run?? We as fans must try to make some sense of who's what. IMO, UNDISPUTED is the highest honor obtainable.

I'd be interested in hearing the number of lineal vacancies that exist in you're perspective:think If it aint Ring(its not), then what is it??

 

The Ring belt dont mean ****.

You can win it and NEVER have to defend against legit contenders.

 

Easy there? I don't recall saying anything derogatory in that post. I just have no idea why you started the post with something about the Ring title not being the Lineal title. I don't really care about our history, nor do I think you do....it's a message board and thats about the end of it.

You are right, you cannot strip a unified champion...he is undisputed even after he is stripped, much like Taylor is now at MW. I don't like however when the titles are unified and the best fighter is clearly left out of the picture because he was stripped. For me, it taints the unification process.

I would need to do some research before giving an actual # on the Lineal Vacancies. But look at this....we don't agree on how the lineal title is won, at least not in whole. But I noticed something interesting about Cyberboxingzone...and it's why I am no longer looking to them as a source.

The 130lb title PBF won is odd. He is considered Lineal for beating Hernandez. Hernandez won his from Nelson in 97 I think. But Nelson...he was simply the WBC champion. According to the site, they literally "awarded" him the Lineal title even though he didn't beat another champion....in fact he was the WBC champion for years before they suddenly award him the Lineal status...no explanation yet as to why and what caused this. Things like this make me feel uncomfortable with them as a source.

I also don't agree with Calzaghe being the Lineal champion...and he is according to them. He wouldn't be champion by EITHER of our methods. He never beat #2 and he didn't unify.

 

Lineage or the Ring are merely forms of alphabet crap. Indeed the Ring in the past has taken money off of DKP to rate King fighters.

You need a legitmate base to become Champion of the World; there is no set formula, people need to use their own judgement.

 

Ring did that decades ago....I doubt it is run the same way or by the same people. You cannot hold that over their heads forever.

 

As far as I know Hatton and Casamayor were not undisputed champions.
We do not have a perfict system otherwise Hatton and Cassamayor would still have their tittles.
I will say this about my opion on this matter. It is based on how things are and not how it should be.
There should be one champion and a way to make that championships are defended on a regular basses aganst topthe best compotion.