Which do you feel are Kovalevs and Wards 5 best wins?

Do you disagree? If you do, which points do you disagree on? We can discuss this like boxing aficionados.

 

I disagree with your entries on Dawson, Kessler and Abraham. They're not objective in any way.

 

What do you disagree about them? Was Kessler not the s6 tournament favorite? Was he not the number 1 SMW in the world? Was he not the reigning WBA champ when Ward fought him? Was Ward not green? Who did Ward fight before Kessler? A shot Miranda?

Dawson was the LHW champ, he beat Hopkins to do so. He called out Ward then got beat up, knocked down and quit. Was he the same after this fight? I'll let you be the judge.

Abraham was the hardest hitting MW of the last generation. He moved up to SMW since nobody wanted to fight him, knocked out Taylor, then got dq'd against Dirrell a year before Ward UD'd him. After these losses, Abraham rebounded himself, won 2 more SMW belts, and was the number 1 SMW for a number of years. I can post the rankings up if you want, but I'm sure you already know.

Is there anything else you disagree with?

 

As for Campillo, before the Kovalev fight I remember he got blatantly robbed vs Cloud and in one or both of the Shumenov fights.

 

Were they ever good fighters?

They both got outboxed by a 50 year old man. Cloud was just a manufactured Don King champion, he was never good to begin with.

 

No, you called Dawson "unmotivated" which is hardly quantifiable when it would boost Kovalev's wins but then when he fought Ward you blatantly ignored that the fact that he was fighting a division below his natural weight and was probably drained as **** so badly he got knocked out by Ward. But yeah, this was clearly prime Dawson.

Also, with Kovalev's wins, if a fighter gets beaten after, you use that as proof that they weren't that good with Ward, their "primes" are beaten.

As for Kessler, wasn't he suffering from vision issues in the fight? Why is this prime but Calzaghe wasn't? Not to mention he got fouled like hell too.

And Abraham pretty much lost to every relevent SMW out there other than Taylor who's not really even a 160 fighter. Who cares how hard he hits.

 

I also think it's important to mention that AA's power was great at MW, but after moving to SMW it's wasn't nearly as impressive.

 

So are you saying that Dawson was motivated for the Pascal fight? Did you see that fight? I've seen that fight live, I saw Dawson lazily throwing punches and getting by until a headbutt causes a cut and the fight is almost stopped. Dawson then proceeds to beat the living **** out of Pascal until the fight is stopped on cuts. After Dawson beats Hopkins for the lineal LHW belt, he then proceeds to call out Ward for his SMW belts to become a 2 division champion. He gets knocked down, quit, then never looked the same again.

I judge a fighter what he does before and after a loss. Sometimes, fighters absorb too much punishment and never look the same again, with Dawson, Pascal, Bute and Lucas Matthyse being recent examples.

I've never heard of Kessler suffering from double vision before or after he fought Ward. The only place where I've heard that rumor was here on ESB by mostly British/Calzaghe fans to try and explain to themselves why a green fighter beat Slappy Joe's best win in dominant fashion. There's multiple articles and sources however which claim that Kessler was injured when he fought Calzaghe. I can provide sources if you want.

Abraham won 2 belts after the s6 and was the number 1 SMW for quite sometime until Ramirez took his belt.

 

If you're going to mention some weird ass factor like he wasn't "motivated" then you better mention drainage as well, which is far worse than any kind of motivation for the fight.

I'd rather come into the fight half heartedly than physically drained.

Kessler, maybe you're right IDK, I'm not exactly sure myself where I've heard that he had vision problems. Didn't he say that post fight or something?

Abraham was never **** at SMW, he's been a feeder guy for any half decent SMW and that includes Ramirez. Also nobody cares about his title reign because it's been defended in Germany against guys like Smith, Murray, Stieglitz. Some of those fights people had him losing.

 

Not sure what these links have to do with anything. I skimmed through them to see if they were relevant to the conversation. In the second link, Kessler said in a post interview after the Froch fight that he has been having eye issues since the training camp for Ward. Sounds like sour g****s to me for a guy who made a plethora of excuses following his loss to a green Ward. This is the SAME guy who claimed an absurd conspiracy that Showtime was out to get him so that Ward(an unknown, feather fisted prospected at the time) can win the whole tournament... :rofl From Kesslers own mouth...

“Showtime had to do everything to help him because there were no other Americans who could win the Super Six [the super-middleweight series which Ward won after defeating Froch in the final in December 2011]. The ref was not on my side. When I got the cut they took me to the doc and he said: ‘We’re going to stop the fight.’ The cut was clear of my eyes but they still stopped it. I had just started to attack him and I got him in the corner but they got scared and called in the doctor.”

If you can provide me a link where Kessler claimed eye problems before or during the build up to the Froch fight, I'd like to see it. If you can do that, I'll eat crow and say I was wrong.

Meanwhile, here's an article of Mikkel Kessler being injured before his super fight with Joe Calzaghe.

http://www.**************/news.php?news_id=314&y=2007&m=10

Mikkel Kessler is believed to be shielding a hand so damaged that he has been unable to spar for two weeks and is not expected to do so before climbing through the ropes at Cardiff's Millennium Stadium in the early hours of Sunday morning.

Camp Kessler are playing down whispered reports of the injury and, bone deep though the bruising is said to be, it will not jeopardise their man's appearance before the most populous fight crowd ever assembled under one roof in Britain — 50,000 and rising under Frank ******'s vigorous, Barnum-esque promoting

:yep