Which draw was worse - Chavez/Pea or Canelo/Triple G

Chavez-Whitaker was definitely worse and harder (for harder, read 'impossible') to defend overall, even if Golovkin-Alvarez produced the worst individual score card of all the ones in question.

I had Saturday night's fight 116-113 to Golovkin, but could see how it might be a shade closer. On the other hand, 116-112 in favour of Pea is honestly as kind as I could be to Chavez, and at other times I've had it as wide as 117-111.

But there's also that element that you can't always quantify with pure numbers - the old fashioned eye test. Watching Golovkin-Alvarez, I think we saw a fight which the majority of onlookers felt Golovkin won, but in which he didn't dominate or outclass his opponent. Whereas Whitaker controlled just about every aspect of the Chavez fight; Julio couldn't manoeuvre him in to the positions he wanted, couldn't get the best of the inside exchanges as he did against almost all his other opponents, couldn't get to Pea's body, couldn't avoid the jab etc.

If you think a guy won a round clearly, or if you think he probably edged it, the score (barring knockdowns, deductions etc.) is still the same; 10-9. Hence, you can get fights scored similarly but which didn't play out the same. You need to watch both fights side-by-side to appreciate the difference. Whitaker-Chavez definitely the bigger / worse injustice.

 

Spot on.

 

Yeah, his chin is as good as any I've ever seen. Doesn't mean they were harmless, non-scoring punches. They clearly weren't.

Chavez also had a chin of steel and wasn't backed by any of Pea's punches. Actually it was Pea who retreated. So if that's your scoring criteria, I guess the right answer is that Chavez and GGG both got robbed.

 

I'm surprised by the claim Alvarez landed harder or better shots.
And if people aren't raving about Alvarez's chin that's probably an injustice because he took a few really tasty ones from Golovkin that most people wouldn't have expect him to take so well.

 

I think something like 7-5 Canelo, but my feeling was that most others would favor GGG:s aggression and work rate, and I can see that even if I don't fully agree. I was surprised by the pure outrage, though, since almost all rounds were reasonably close and several very close. The 10-2 scorecard obviously didn't help matters, of course.

 

It's been a while since I saw Whitaker-Chavez but I agree that there's no comparison in the way the fights looked.

I never mentioned "harmless, non-scoring punches".
You mentioned "damaging punches", claiming Alvarez was landing more of them and that no one could doubt it.
I disagree.

But I'd also guess we both need to watch the fight again.

 

He stumbled off balance momentarily after he missed a right hand and caught Canelo's elbow. It was filmed in slow motion from multiple angles, there was no punch that caused it.

Canelo's head shakes after hard shots and retreats had the British announcers stating, if I may paraphrase "he appeared to be hurt."

 

I probably will at some point, but had my fill right now (watched it twice).There's not terribly much in it either way, though, so it's not a big thing. I am surprised by the feelings it has stirred, though. I wonder if it would have been the same if the third card only had it by a point to Canelo instead of eight.

Because it was an evenly matched fight, as I see it. Just like in Leonard-Hagler, one showed the better defence and landed more clean punches (not by a big margin, but still a pretty clear one imo) while the other was the aggressor and the busier fighter.

I tend to favor the former, but if you go by the latter in a close fight I can understand that even though I don't necessarily agree. Look forward to the rematch.

 

Fair enough.
You're in a relatively tiny minority that actually had him winning but that's your belief and I can't argue with that.
You'll probably find more allies for that scoreline that your Tillis-Tyson card though, (not that I'm suggesting you care about allies).



I'd rather they brought back "finish fights" or make every important fight a 15 or 20 round no-decision or automatic draw !

Decisions and score cards have had their day.

 

I think Golovkin clearly got more of the harder punchers, he even knocked Canelo into the ropes from a jab at one point.

Canelo's chin is world class, this is the only fight I've seen him react the slightest to his opponent's punches. He's been down before once, right, when he was younger? I heard that somewhere but never saw it.

 

Both men should have been given the decision in their defining fight.

But the difference is, Whittaker probably have the best performance of his career and there is no argument that Chavez deserved 6 rounds that night.

Golovkin didn't give the best performance of his career and there's a stretched but justifiable argument that Canelo deserved 6 rounds that night.

 

Impossible to say for sure. He was caught by a very good punch at the same moment he started his own punch, so it is absolutely impossible to rule out that he interfered with his balance. In fact it's the reasonable conclusion that it did to some extent. For most that would have been good night. Golovkin wasn't really hurt, though, but perhaps stunned a bit for a split second. Amazing chin.

 

I don't know if he's been down but his chin is granite, yes.

Golovkin knock him around a bit with a couple of big punches that spring to memory. I think he drove him back a few times with punches.

 

You are correct in that the right hand hit as Golovkin was rolling his shoulder to start the punch. I look at it as had Golovkin went down, I don't think it would be fair to rule it a knockdown caused by a punch. I still think Canelo had more "bothered" moments for lack of better description.