Which Fabulous 4 member had the greatest victory?

thank you. I don't get many compliments much on ESB. I appreciate it.

 

now that you say it I see it in my head. I remembered right now at one point Ray and Marvin were sort of locked together and just standing there after the bell rang and Marvin gave him a big shove when Ray wouldn't move quickly. Marvin slowly started to get frustrated at Ray, but I think at that point Marvin couldn't really get a fight plan going like he could against Hearns. And to honest, Tommy gave Marvin everything he wanted as far as standing in front of him. He hurt Marvin, but he was right there to be hit. Ray was so smart. He saw and learned so much by his fights and others fights Marvin had. That Hearns fight told him don't fight Marvin, and you could see Marvin telling him to fight and Ray shaking his head no as he moved around the ring with Marvin chasing him.

 

only a newbie that didnt know better would vote Leonard hagler

the best achievements are those in which that opponent that was overcome, is closest to his peak and Hearns was closest to his peak. You yourself say that Norris win over Leonard doesnt matter becuz u feel Ray was too far past his peak (I feel otherwise)

why then go with Leonard over Hagler? U can see Marvelous had no reflexes. It even says so in the KO mag covering the fight.

Hagler on the other hand, near the endof his career, pulls off not only the best win of the four but probably in the history of the game

 

Not completely true, Marvin did NOT lose his TITLES MAG1965! Marvin had ALREADY lost 2/3 of them before the fight had started. does the fact that he was announced as WBC middleweight champion mean anything?

Marvin was very much on the way out as a fighter and since I am the only person on ESB who watched him in sparring just the month before, I can say that

I dont want to spoil all the Leonard fans here trying to get their man as #1 but Marvin was already OUTSPED in those sessions and didnt lay a glove on them until his last sparring parnter (they were probably told to slow down to stop embarassing him). There's just no explaining it away

If Steve Marantz had asked me if Marvin was outboxed in those sessions, it would be no exaggeration to say he was outsped & outhit 20-1 by his first two sparring partners the Weaver Triplets

Did you happen to catch that session becuz I did. I even posted the photo I have of it maybe 4 or 5 yrs ago. people here on ESB try to discount it and pretend it means nothing becuz they dont like Sugar's accomplishment eclipsed by a sparring partner's already having done it

 

You're some laugh.......I'll give you that.

 

Leonard had one fight in five years. It was his first fight at the weight. Why the hell was Hagler such a massive favorite?

Who did you have winning the fight?

 

These things are a matter of opinion. The match-ups between these 4 were great fights and the big winner was boxing. Why carry on trying to detract from that?

 

Because people HATE Leonard, to this day.

 

Quoting again from Leonard's autobiography 'The Big Fight' >>>

"In retrospect, nearly a quarter century later, the victory in 1987 means as much to be now as it did then, maybe more. If the fight with Tommy Hearns is my great achievement in the ring, the fight with Hagler is my proudest."

 

Do you know what quote this is from:

"There is no greater feeling than overcoming. Having your hand raised in victory when you're not supposed to. That's defiance. There is nothing sweeter than defiance"

?

 

It doesn't sound like something Leonard would say - having said that I read his autobiography some time ago. Leonard freely admits he lost the 2nd Hearns fight, and the draw they awarded him was a gift.

The quote has the sound of Duran. But I can't say I specifically remember it.

 

It is true although he knows he won the fight against Hearns which mattered the most.