Which fight damaged Ali's health the most?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Germanicus, Jun 7, 2015.


  1. Germanicus

    Germanicus Active Member Full Member

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    With boxing it's the chronic damage that accumulates over a career that ends up permanently hurting the fighter after his career is over. Which fight of Ali's do you think damaged him the most? The choice will vary from poster to poster possibly, but for me, it was the 3rd fight with Joe Frazier. Neither fighter came out of that fight the same again. Ali's speech was noticeably slower and thicker. His skills in the ring were never again the same. His thinking or wit, seemed slower to me as well. If I had to make a list of fights to choose from, I would list the following fights that all seemed to affect Ali's health, to some degree or another:

    1) 3rd Frazier fight
    2) Holmes fight
    3) Shavers fight
    4) Spinks fight(s)
    5) Berbick fight

    These are the fights that I, came up with to choose from. Some posters may have as there choice another fight that I, failed to list as the most damaging. Perhaps, I'm remiss in not including all the time spent in training. That might be the greatest cause overall.
     
  2. The Long Count

    The Long Count Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    No way to tell. How do we even know if Ali wasn't genetically predisposed to get Parkinson's syndrome. Plenty of fighters have fought on past prime and don't suffer the way Ali does.

    I do know that his handlers and entourage should be ashamed of letting him go into the ring with Larry and Teevor.
     
  3. heerko koois

    heerko koois Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    What about Kenny Norton?
     
  4. Germanicus

    Germanicus Active Member Full Member

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    I agree as far as his handlers. I would also question the Nevada commission. Ali, went to the Mayo clinic for a physical. The Nevada commission doctors never examined him, as per the requirements, just basing the decision to license on the Mayo report. Everybody including the State of Nevada wanted some of the money that an Ali comeback bout would bring in.

    I'm certainly no medical professional. And genetics probably plays a part. But I just can't exclude fighting from playing a large part as to the condition of Ali. Certainly other factors all have some part as to the severity of his health. What percentage each factor plays in the condition, I just can't say.
     
  5. Germanicus

    Germanicus Active Member Full Member

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    The 3 bouts with Norton certainly should be thought of. Which of the 3 bouts hurt Ali the most I couldn't say for sure. But the Norton fights were one's that would be on many lists.
     
  6. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    I see it as being a slow process over various fights that damaged Muhammad's health rather than one in particular. No certainties but I've a feeling that had Ali hung them up after Manilla he would be a lot better,physically,today. Both Ali and Frazier should never have gone anywhere near a ring after that bout.
     
  7. Stevie G

    Stevie G Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Good point mentioned. Ali should never have been given a license for the Holmes or Berbick fights.
     
  8. Germanicus

    Germanicus Active Member Full Member

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    We are in agreement with the statement of hanging them up after the 'Thrilla in Manila'.
     
  9. Shake

    Shake Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I think the Shavers fight. Manilla was tough physically, but he shipped a lot of hard punches vs Shavers.
     
  10. RockyJim

    RockyJim Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Pick one after his comeback...he didn't have the reflexes he had back in 1963-1967...he became a punching bag in the 1970's...
     
  11. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    Believe it or not it's proberbly the very first Frazier fight. It came 12 weeks after the Bonavena fight too. Until that time the Bonavena fight was perhaps his most competative fight so 1971 was pretty tough.

    The closest thing to two all time greats at their best in the ring against one another both fighting to win. A prime Joe Frazier punching himself to exhaustion on Ali has to be when it started. What fighter could be the same?

    I think Ali had an extraordinary amount of energy, a hyper active kid. Always on the go. It possibly gave him the capacity to take too much punishment when the time came because initially he was so hard to hit..

    They say even at his elusive best ALi pushed himself to deliberately take beatings on the ropes in sparring to toughen himself up. Just to condition himself to being hit because for a long while he just could not be hit that much in actual fights. Those punches count too.

    But I have read there was early signs that before he even had a tough fight that he was always a bit different. He could get so excited while talking and suddenly just fall asleep mid conversation, be out like a light. That's just not normal. I'm no doctor but if a kid who never boxed could unexpectedly sleep mid conversation and later became a victim of Parkinson's I would personally be less surprised than I would if the person never did that.
     
  12. McGrain

    McGrain Diamond Dog Staff Member

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    There's absolutely no way to know. Naming a fight is basically impossible. But there sure were some evenings that were hard on the eyes. Poor Ali.
     
  13. LouisA

    LouisA Active Member Full Member

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    If his current condition is a result of boxing its not going to be one fight, or even several fights. Its the years of being hit in sparring and fights, punch after punch, year after year.
     
  14. johnmaff36

    johnmaff36 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Wasnt he showing signs before Norton 3 ? Now, i dont know if boxing was responsible nor do i know if that condition comes on instantly or gradually over time, but if boxing DID play a part its my guess that it began to happen well before Norton 3, maybe a far back as the 2 norton fights in 73? We'll never know, but i think its pretty unanimous thinking that he shoula retired after Manila
     
  15. Perry

    Perry Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    I watched Ali closely during the 70s and I never noticed anything that was obvious until his bouts with Spinks. However no one fight does this sort of damage. It's an accumulation over time which would include sparring. His bout with Shavers was exceptionally brutal as he took many right hand shots on the button from one of the hardest right hand punchers in history.