Which fight iyo was the most historical significant of these. Jack johnson winning the title and becoming the first black man to do so? Johnson of course played a major part in boxing history and to a degree world. It affected the sport and that of many blacks at the time. I'm sure more historically minded people than my self no more about this period. Joe Louis ko in schmeling? Another significant fight in boxing and world history. Joe knocking out and avenging his loss was important and moral boosting with the incoming war. Ali v frazier? Ali a first title fight after having been stripped for failure to enter the Vietnam war. Once again a massive impact fight due to the social climate.
Fergy, you have been creating some excellent topics as of late. I am going with the Johnson-Jeffries fight for historical significance. I can't imagine how jarring the result was to the establishment and to much of the everyday rabble. In retrospect, it is an event that seemed decades ahead of its time. However, part of me, also reflects on the aftermath of the three fights and particularly of their main protagonists. Johnson-Jeffries created race riots, beatings and lynchings and became the rationale for not allowing a black man a chance at the crown for decades. Joe Louis was heralded as a US hero only to be hounded by the IRS a decade later for not paying taxes on contribution to the US Navy fund, fought on far too long and met an undistinguished end in the ring and greeting visitors at Vegas casinos. Ali, perhaps making up for lost years, became self-parody and fought on far too long, ultimately reduced to an incoherent ghost for the last decades of his life.
Well I was expecting a good answer mate but that s a cracking one. For what I no about the johnson era, and I confess not as much as some of u guys on here, the burns fight started off the fire but the Jeffries one just blew it right up. To live in those racially tension filled days in America and then have jack come along, grab the title and basically beat all in front of him, it must have been a powder keg just waiting to go. So yes mate that's definitely up there, how can it not be.
Scheming vs Louis 2 tops the list. It was a dress rehearsal for World War II, the most significant event in the century. Had Louis lost, it would have emboldened the Nazi's and demoralized the USA. Second would likely be Ali vs Frazier one.
I actually think johnson and Louis the top two personally. Johnson for the reason s mentioned above and Louis for the exact reason s u just posted. While ali v frazier is massive, I would say historically social and political those two are above.
It wouldn't have surprised me if there was as many Americans that wanted Schmeling to win as wanted Joe to win. This was a few years before the war and the full horrors of the Nazis were still to come or be revealed.
I can't speak for the Americans but I can imagine the brits would have been pulling for Joe. Imagine the ramifications if Louis had lost? The propaganda machine would have been ramped up fully. And the title would have gone to Germany probably for the duration of the war.
Jeffries was fat, out of the ring for 5+ years and old. Scheming had already beaten Louis so who would win the re-match was in question. Ali vs Frazier matched two undefeated champions below 30. Both Schmeling vs Louis 2 and Ali vs Frazier 1 were better fights. The ironic thing with Johnson is he used an ability line, as much as a color line. He fought a draw with Black fighter Jim Battling Johnson ( who had a journeyman's record ) so this proves he would offer at least one fight with his title on the line vs another African American. But Langford, Jeannette and McVey who were more qualified never got a crack at Johnson title. Langford and Johnson was once signed...Johnson pulled out of a signed contract. Gunboat Smith ( who was white ) was a hot fighter, with major wins wins over Moran and Willard who later received title shots from Johnson. He also be at Flynn and Ross, who received title shots from Johnson. The capper is he defeated Sam Langford! He also TKO'd Johnson in a 4 round exhibition match. Perhaps a reason why Johnson never gave him the title shot. To quote the book " In this corner" , Smith said, and he never forgot that, referring to the right hand than sent Johnson into la-la land. So perhaps the true " white hope " of the times was frozen out. The other would be Luther McCarty, who beat Moran, Flynn, and Kaufman ( Johnson title defense opponents ) and drew with Willard. But McCarty died in 1913, which is about the time Johnson was on the decline. McCarty vs Johnson in 1914 could have been 50/50. Never saw any film on McCarty. I would like to one day.
All of them in their own way equally signifigant. Johnson-Jeffries was the most controversial. I can almost hear the racist white American establishment screaming in pain "How dare Johnson spoil the script" !!!!
Louis -Schmeling II on June 22, 1938 at Yankee Stadium in NYC. This fight came to symbolize the fight between democracy and fascism....over 70,000 fans at the stadium that night...a few weeks before the fight, Louis went to the White House...and FDR told Louis,"Joe we need muscles like yours to beat Germany!". The whole world was listening in on radio that night...when Max started to go down in the 1st round...the radio feed to Germany was suddenly cut off!! Joe destroys him in 2:04 seconds of the first round. Schmeling said that on his way to the hospital in an ambulance...he saw crowds of people running and celebrating in the streets!!! Biggest fight of all time...
What a shocker. Someone mentions Jack Johnson and Mendtrumpza goes on one of his tired broken record rants to try to minimize Johnson's accomplishments. Whatever. Johnson's title winning victory is the most historically significant because cracked open the door for others. I wont say it broke barriers because his actions pretty much gave guys like Jack Dempsey and Gene Tunney the excuse they needed to slam the door shut again. But it was a win that still reverberates. Next I would say is Louis-Schmeling because of the backdrop. Im not so sure that fight was so much historically significant as it was topically significant AT THAT TIME. By that I mean the fight was hugely important given the context of the day but I believe that luster has dimmed somewhat over time. Ali-Frazier wasnt historically significant outside of the confines of sport generally and boxing particularly. In my opinion it was the greatest and biggest boxing match of all time. There were a lot of societal issues wrapped up in the mix but ultimately I dont think its outcome could or would change anything for anyone. Johnson-Burns did that. It literally changed things for people and had a real impact on life. It altered history in a very real way. I dont think you can say the same thing about Louis-Schmeling 2 and Ali-Frazier 1.
The strange thing about this is every answer is in its own way right, they were all massively important fight s. But I do think that johnson and Louis s fight s really are a massive part of history that goes beyond boxing. The johnson win probably caused life's to be changed in America for a lot of black people at that time. Suddenly the people had a man of there own colour as the baddest man on the planet. It really must have affected thousand of life's. As did the Louis fight but for obvious different reasons.
You've just described that perfect rj. Like I said, it so much more than a mere boxing match. It's people s hopes and life's mixed up in that ring between just two men
This is a narrative that holds less weight with historic perspective. I am sure it was convincing to certain populations at the time. However, with Louis coming from a deeply disenfranchised population, it rings a bit hollow. That almighty democracy you speak of was an unreachable carrot dangled for Louis and his people.
