Which fighter was greater?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mark Dunham, Oct 25, 2021.


  1. Flo_Raiden

    Flo_Raiden Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Close call. Benitez had a higher ceiling but burned out quickly. Toney had the longevity.

    Wilfred Benitez wins: Kid Pambele, Carlos Palomino, Bruce Curry (x2), Maurice Hope, Roberto Duran

    James Toney wins: Michael Nunn, Reggie Johnson, Mike McCallum (x2), Iran Barkley, Vasily Jirov, Evander Holyfield
     
  2. Noel857

    Noel857 I Am Duran Full Member

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    Wafer thin but it has to be Benitez
     
  3. ChrisJS

    ChrisJS Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I’d say Benitez.
     
  4. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    James has the better wins
     
  5. PernellSweetPea

    PernellSweetPea Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    This, and he fought his wins to me were more iconic and his youngest title win and Duran also and Cervantes, and he fought Hearns and Leonard when they were good.. Hearns was not yet prime, but at his prime weight.
     
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  6. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Wilfredo Benitez was greater. He beat Cervantes and Palomino to win titles at a young age. Was able to win the title at Jr.Middleweight and school a Duran who was in great shape.
     
  7. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Benitez faced 2 PRIME atg's and came up short. But those
    two performances are better than Toney's victories over a
    past prime M.Mccallum x2, a deep in the valley past it Holyfield
    two fighters he matched up well against in Jirov and Barkley
    and his win over Nunn which he was losing unanimously until
    he landed a desperation punch.
    Motivated Benitez wins over Cervantes , Palomino and Duran
    are better than any of Toney's wins.
    Benitez was much more naturally gifted, Toney though as he
    demonstrated probably worked harder in the gym at least at
    some point of his career because his skill level were top notch.
    Toney knew how to fight. He had the perfect style to have
    a long career and go up in weight successfully with his economical punching,
    and well timed counters .
    Benitez the more naturally gifted fighter is only a tad bit better than Toney
    in my opinion.
    But I wouldn't argue with anyone who see it a different way based on Toney's
    longevity and ability to fight successfully all the way up to heavyweight.
    But Toney's lack of motivation in being at top physical condition
    and seeming to coast a lot of times in the ring is the main reason I
    lean to Benitez.
     
  8. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    no way. Toney did not get lucky with a desperation punch as you say.

    James was coming on strong and had won rounds 8 - 10 and you could see Mike wilting from the pressure just before James tagged him

    This is a much bigger win than a fat uninspired Duran, or a so so Mo Hope; no mobility, zero foot movement.

    Palomino is average at best and Cervantes was quite slow. Tall, but no speed

    whereas Mike was a difficult leftie, WITH speed, movement, and a punch

    To me, that win trumps ALL of Wilfred's big wins

    Notice how Wilfred could NOT overcome those fighters WITH speed like Hearns & Leonard

    case closed
     
  9. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    Duran wasn't fat. He had trained well for Benitez. Cervantes was a great fighter. Palomino 7lbs north was certainly above average and brought pressure, infighting and body punching as Stracey found out.
     
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  10. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    dont get me wrong. They are good quality wins, even impressive wins in their own right

    The win over Duran is seen as a mild upset whereas Toney's win over Nunn was a monumental win

    I will take wins over Nunn & McCallum over Palomino, out of his weight class, immobile, Duran and Cervantes any day
     
  11. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You only stated your opinion. Mine is a little different. This isn't a court of law, only different points of view. If the case is closed as you say it's only because your ego won't allow you to see that different point of view . Your answers are the only one that matter to you( which is ok) but why be on the site if you have all the answers? Calling Duran fat the night he fought Benitez is complete nonsense, and indicates more about your one sided view and only to enhance your argument. Benitez had a better showing against Leonard and Hearns than Toney had against Jones Jr. The only prime ATG he faced. So who had the bigger issue with speed?
    But as I wrote in my previous post I wouldn't have an issue with anyone who thought Toney was better.
     
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  12. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Boxing Addict Full Member

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    I'd pick Toney, Benitez was great, but Toney had much more longevity.
     
  13. Mark Dunham

    Mark Dunham Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I dont have all the answers but James nailed Nunn clean all the way back to the 5th round and was seen slumping into the ropes just before the end. There is no way he won that fight simply on a desperation punch

    Duran: he was no longer the sleek, trim fighting machine of 135

    no offense but he wasnt even close to wat he was in 1980 when he fought Leonard & Palomino
     
  14. Flash24

    Flash24 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Of course he wasn't what he was at welterweight and light. But that version was damn good.
    Some seem to forget a couple fights after the loss to Benitez Duran would go on to finish off Cuevas and absolutely ruin young up and comer Moore, who was a big favorite to beat him. After those two fights he would be the only fighter to extend a prime Hagler.
    Hagler had to really bring it the last few rds of their fight to get a win over Duran. So was he really that far over the hill as some suggest, or was Benitez better than some like to give credit?
    To me, it's the same old Duran "wasn't "Excuses made whenever he lost in his prime or close to it.
    You know the ones, wasn't feeling well. ( Leonard) wasn't ready to fight because he was out partying ( Hearns and Benitez) Wasn't taking him seriously ( DeJesus and Laing) wasn't big enough for Hagler( which is true in my opinion)
    Benitez doesn't get the credit deserved for that victory. He beat Duran more convincingly than Hagler or Leonard in their 2nd fight.
    And Duran definitely wasn't as past it as badly as Holyfield the night he faced Toney. May not have been as past it as the versions of McCallum he faced.