Which fighter was greater?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Mark Dunham, Nov 23, 2021.

  1. KuRuPT

    KuRuPT Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Aug 26, 2011
    To be fair, the fight you say besides, is a better win than SRL had on his resume all things considered. Against Hearns (his best win imo) SRL had to comeback in a fight he was clearly losing, against a fading Hearns. Granted, he is of championship pedigree, and showed it, but it was a tough fight for him, one he was close to losing. By contrast, Duran bossed the fight against that same fighter who beat Hearns, and in my book, was never behind on the cards. This was against one of the best WW of all time, while he himself was a natural LW.

    McGrain asked this question a long time ago, what other LW in history do you see beating that SRL as Duran did? Then ask yourself that in the reverse, what other WW in history do you see beating that Hearns? The list was small, almost non-existent for the former, while the later produced many more viable candidates, though not many again. I think that underscores the significance of that win, and just how valuable it was.

    Then when you factor in other wins, like DeJesus and Ken B., and then Pipino and Palomino, title reign of domination which is far longer than SRL reigned, the case becomes better imo. That isn't even getting into fights with Barkley, which again, despite what you think of Iran, are a lot of former LWs, who are 37 years old beating him that night? Which win of SRL has had such obstacles stacked against him? Hagler, that is one of his better wins, against a fighter past his best, who I had winning that fight anyways. Do you see a lot of former LWs going 15 rounds with THAT Hagler? I see more WW having a chance against that Hagler than the reverse.

    Part of being a great champion, and proving your Ilk, is longevity, doing it time after time, year after year. We give SRL a pass for a spotty career, because of the greatness it started with, and frankly, because of how great he looks on film, but his early retirement in his first career did happen. All in all, there isn't much between them when it comes to, at their best, they were top 3 of their division h2h; and both pass the skill and eye test with flying colors, but for me, it's the other factors that nudge Duran over SRL in my book.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  2. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Resident Gadfly Full Member

    Sep 22, 2021
    Hardly any of this is relevant, Just look at what they actually did. Leonard beat better guys that’s indisputable IMO some top P4P talent in there primes and he humiliated Duran in a rematch he climbed the ladder and went up stairs after a 3 year lay off and an injury to beat Marvin who was coming off a win over John and Hearns.

    Duran fought longer that’s a fair point and was a great lightweight those are good arguments I just think the sheer quality of Leonard’s resume outshines Durans like I said it’s a really individual process.
    Last edited: Nov 23, 2021
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  3. Journeyman92

    Journeyman92 Resident Gadfly Full Member

    Sep 22, 2021
    I can definitely see why Duran could be rated higher. It’s hard to split them for me but I just don’t think what he did puts him in front of Leonard’s sheer quality of wins though if you ask me in a month I might just be singing for Durans longevity and P4P credentials as a weight jumper. When it comes to splitting hairs on fighters like this it is so marginal for me that 1-2 might as well be a draw aha.

    Good, well thought out post man.
  4. Jel

    Jel Reserving the right to be inconsistent Full Member

    Oct 20, 2017
    Great post.
  5. Bronze Tiger

    Bronze Tiger Boxing Addict Full Member

    Jun 23, 2018
    Sugar Ray Leonard fought a lot of men that were naturally bigger than him as well
  6. Balder

    Balder Well-Known Member banned Full Member

    Nov 10, 2012
    Duran and that is H2H, P4P, and All time.

    H2H - We saw how Duran beat Leonard already.
    P4P - Duran was a natural Light Weight and dominated that division better than Leonard did at his / Welterweight.
    All Time - Duran was fighting into his 50"s and even became a Middleweight champ against a prime and much bigger champion. No cherry picking. He did not duck Hagler at his peak either.

    This is really not that close.

    Duran easy.
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2021
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  7. mark ant

    mark ant Duran's speed moving in would make Ali hit air Full Member

    May 4, 2017
    He was just a better fighter, his wins over Dejesus and Buchanan were very good, he looked amazing at 135 and beating one of the most dangerous fighters of the day at welter the way he did was amazing.
  8. Boxed Ears

    Boxed Ears this my daddy's account (RIP daddy) Full Member

    Jul 28, 2009
    People aren't gonna like what I have to say here today. It will no doubt ruffle some feathers. I judge fighters, as many of us do, silently, by their mustaches. IF THEY HAVE THE GUTS to show people what those mustaches can turn into. Well, Duran's mustache...effing sucked. There, I said it. I am not apologising for it. Or apologizing for it. This is why Aaron Pryor...is greater than both Duran and Leonard and BY SOME DISTANCE. Good day. Good day to you all.
  9. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Boxing Junkie Full Member

    Jul 16, 2019
    I do not want to go by their respective opposition but their skills, longevity, conditioning for big fights. I say Roberto Hands Of Stone Duran, but I cannot discount Sugar Ray Leonard as he was super talented also.
  10. Ioakeim Tzortzakis

    Ioakeim Tzortzakis New Member Full Member

    Aug 27, 2020
    I pick Duran. I might be biased since he is my favorite fighter but I just can't see Leonard ahead of him.

    As far as their rivalry goes, Leonard may have won 2-1 but it's Duran's victory that truly matters. I give props to Leonard for making Duran quit, but that doesn't change the fact that he was in terrible condition during the fight, and while it's all Duran's fault for giving in to temptation, it does not change that he wasn't all there either physically and especially not mentally.

    The third fight is literally meaningless. Both of them were shot, Leonard got dominated by Norris just 15 months later ( Prime Leonard clowns Norris ) and Duran never had anything close to a great performance again despite his longevity. They were there just for the payday.

    In the first fight, they were prime and in top physical condition, and the winner was Duran. Despite being a LW who had moved up to WW, having only just 8 fights there before he fought Leonard. The whole "Leonard fought the wrong fight" is just a myth, he boxed like he always did in the first round and got mauled in the second, forcing him to adjust and fight Duran directly. Not to mention that it's this element of Leonard that makes him truly dangerous, he was getting outboxed by Hearns and then put on an offensive masterclass to beat him, and he actually did better against Duran when he went on the offensive, but he still couldn't do it. Prime Duran always beats him.

    And while Leonard has other wins against Benitez, Hagler and Hearns, while great wins, it's really all he has. And he still arguably lost to past it versions of Hagler and Hearns in the second one ( But he was past his best as well so I give him more slack than most do). After those guys the names in his resume fall drastically. Duran on the other hand has Ernesto Marcel, Ken Buchanan, Esteban De Jesus twice, Carlos Palomino, Pipino Cuevas and Iran Barkley as his main wins ( Aside from SRL of course ) and countless underrated secondary wins. His longevity earns him a huge boost as well, he arguably won against Camacho not even a full year before Camacho destroyed Leonard despite ray being 5 years younger and with way less wear and tear.
    Last edited: Nov 25, 2021
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  11. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

    Nov 13, 2010
    I might have to go with SRL here. At least for today I do. I'm sure some posters who count losses against certain fighters must count the losses on Duran's record as well...because they do count against him.

    Who has the better wins? Who has the better reign? Who has the worse losses on their record?
  12. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Duran is top 10 P4P. Ray Leonard isn't

    The fact that Duran was able to move up to Welterweight and not only be competitive with Leonard but take his title weighs heavily in his favor. Ray was not only prime but also the naturally bigger and in theory stronger fighter. Leonard won the rematch using his legs to run around the ring. Stay away from the little guy.

    Not impressive.
  13. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

    Mar 19, 2012
    Getting knocked out by Hector Camacho is not a good reference.
  14. Sangria

    Sangria You bleed like Mylee Full Member

    Nov 13, 2010
    Or losing to Pat Lawlor. That would be worse.
  15. Unforgiven

    Unforgiven Obsessed with Boxing banned Full Member

    Nov 24, 2005
    I would rate SRL above Duran as an all-time welterweight.