Which fighters post Robinson have had the opportunity to surpass him?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by lufcrazy, Jun 16, 2022.

  1. Glass City Cobra

    Glass City Cobra Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Well yes, if those boxers you mentioned theoretically won every fight, some of them would have records equal to or even arguably surpassing Robinson.

    As far as their chances in actual h2h fights, I don't think Duran would ever beat Hearns in 10 attempts. If I had a time machine and managed Duran, I'd do everything in my power to avoid that fight. Every other loss could have theoretically been reversed with a different game plan/conditioning/mind set etc.

    Really can't see Pac beating Marquez 4x. Likewise, Mayweather would be one hell of a hurdle no matter when the fight took place.

    Jones absolutely could have beaten all his opponents. Some guys he lost to had no business being in the same ring.

    Holyfield is really tricky. The guy had so many mixed results and letdowns despite always being in shape and giving it his all. I think the biggest obstacle for an undefeated record would be Bowe. You could argue that he lost all 3. Beating Lewis twice is also an insanely difficult task.
     
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  2. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If Roy Jones Jr walks away after Ruiz he'd be automatic top 10 and some would rank him GOAT.

    Given the hype and awe if Tyson stays level and happens to beat Douglas and then the version of Holyfield that fought Douglas, then, say, Ruddock and Lewis and lets say Lewis and or Holyfield in a rematch with a few fights in the middle the sky would be the limit. Now it's dubious he could have even if he didn't go off the rails but if he did there would be any amount of people proclaiming him the GOAT. There's still people that thought he could have been champ again after seeing his training for the Jones exhibition. There's people that rate him the H2H heavyweight GOAT.
     
  3. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    If you think Jones had done enough to be automatic top ten after beating Ruiz, then he should still be automatic top ten now.
     
  4. Vic The Gambler

    Vic The Gambler Member Full Member

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    I have to admit I didn’t realise…or maybe I forgot is more accurate…that SRR went 128-1-1! That’s a record that will never be equalled in these modern times where boxers are considered ATGs after having just 30+ fights!

    I definitely think Ali had the potential to be spoken about as a possibility in terms of surpassing SRR as the greatest ever (some people actually rate him above Robinson now anyway) if he had not had that 3 year lay off. I could have seen him beating everybody he fought up until the late 70s.
    Unfortunately for him the lay off did happen and he wasn’t in the greatest shape when he took on Norton and Frazier the first time.
    But the fact that he avenged those defeats and reinvented himself during the 70s as a great boxer, though not as quick or as elusive as he once was, is probably why he’ll always be in the conversation when talking about boxers who have possibly surpassed Robinson.
     
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  5. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    I'm not saying the guys I listed would be greater because they would be unbeaten. It's more that I think they had the opportunity to fight enough great fighters to be ranked above SRR.

    I dismiss the notion that fighters today don't have the opportunity to be as great as him.
     
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  6. JohnThomas1

    JohnThomas1 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yes I've seen you talk this line of thought before but i find it bizarre TBH.

    Losses count. From Ruiz on nothing but harm came to Jones standing. Prior to the Tarver loss plenty were starting to think him invincible.

    Dying young has helped a lot of reputations from music to boxing. If Tyson never fights again after Carl Williams and Jones after Ruiz there is 100% chance the mainstream of all knowledge levels would collectively hold both in higher esteem.

    Sure, we can take into account the likes of SRR, Charles, Ali etc were past prime when the losses piled up but it still affects their standing.
     
  7. Blaxx

    Blaxx Member Full Member

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    A kid surviving the hardships of the El Chorillo slums to go on and beat the best boxers across 5 decades isn't soulful to you?
    He'd be rightfully rated higher, and there'd be no need for excuses and discrediting other fighters wins.
     
  8. Vic The Gambler

    Vic The Gambler Member Full Member

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    Regarding Jones, I agree that with his gifts he should have won all his fights. But to be fair, except his DQ against Griffin, he won every fight (49) from aged 20-35. His problem was fighting on when the talents that made him an ATG deserted him.

    I think Holyfield was always on a sticky wicket fighting a lot of guys with significant weight advantages over him. So despite his peak physical condition and obvious abilities, there were times when the size disadvantage cost him dearly.
     
  9. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    Does it affect their standing though? Almost everyone has the likes of Langford, Charles, Armstrong and Robinson in their top 5,no one cares about post prime losses.

    Duran is in most top 10s,again no one cares about his post prime losses.

    If what Jones had done up until Ruiz was enough to be top ten, he would be top ten. Same as Duran is.
     
  10. jabber74

    jabber74 Member Full Member

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    ??
     
  11. EddieLima

    EddieLima Member Full Member

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    I think record doesn't mean much in the grand scheme of things. Nobody puts Marciano on that discussion as his era was a weak one. Think a guy who could surpass in the eyes of most would be Tyson, if he could carry on that devastating streak of the 80s into the 90s with big names on the resumé (Bowe, Holyfield, Razor, Lewis, Morrison, Mercer...) he could be in the discussion as he had speed, power and technical ability... Sadly he didn't have anyone to guide him after Cus died
     
  12. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    Yeah, I realised that Luf, that’s why I mentioned the logic of resumé trumping unbeaten runs/winning streaks. My point is that Robinson had such an impressive combination at his peak of all of those things - that’s what I think makes it hard for another fighter to be ranked above him.
     
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  13. Holmes77

    Holmes77 Member Full Member

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    If Holmes wouldn’t have been robbed in that Spinks fight and would have retired at 49-0 he his up there
     
  14. Jel

    Jel Obsessive list maker Full Member

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    In your opinion, Luf. Of course, it’s all opinion, but the criteria that people judge fighters by isn’t consistent between everyone and for some, myself included, what a fighter did after his prime does carry some weight to their overall standing. It can impact their legacy positively (if they came back and won, like Ali) or negatively (if they looked untouchable in their prime and then nosedived off a cliff by getting repeatedly KO’ed, like Jones).

    In his prime, RJJ was the best I’ve ever seen, better even than the likes of Hagler and Leonard, but I rate Hagler and Leonard above him all-time. I can’t unsee the last part of Jones’s career. Had he lost in a series of close, competitive points defeats that showed that he had slowed but that he had a tremendous heart, it might not impact him as badly (that’s more or less what happened with Robinson and Ali) but Jones’s fall was so spectacular, so dramatic that it isn’t like I can perform a memory wipe. I’d like to, but I just can’t.
     
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  15. lufcrazy

    lufcrazy requiescat in pace Full Member

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    A memory wipe isn't necessary imo. If he had achieved enough, to the point where had he retired we'd all have him top ten, nothing after that should detract from that imo.
     
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