which fighters were one win away from being the goat?

Which one would be better? That one you mentioned, or Chavez beating Whitaker in '93?

 

Hopkins/calzaghe? Considering what's happened before/since?

 

No, it would have Charles there by virtue of his 3-0 over Archie. Regardless of anything else Moore did, he had to beat Ezz at some point to have a chance of getting to that rarefied strata.

 

Kind of a food for thought type 1 not mentioned yet would be Louis over Schmeling #1.

The reason why is I think he retires undefeated and does not have the comeback bouts but that's conjecture due to his financial affairs. What it would do is not seeing Louis lose a bout until he was a very old man and pretty much winning those bouts easily.

 

It's a good thought, and very possibly a valid observation, but as Joe said in explaining that loss, "I thought I was hot ****." If he'd gotten past Schmeling, the humbling upset would have come sooner or later. Billy Conn may well have been the beneficiary, making Louis-Conn I another such instance of the sort of reverse win we're discussing for this thread. Recall that Joe said in a televised interview during the 1970s that, "Billy Conn had it all!" Give him the win over Louis, and he could get rated over Fitz, Loughran and Charles at the GOAT at 175. (I commonly give that slot to Michael Spinks for what he did against another ATG HW Champion.) Also, Billy was going for the knockout. What if he succeeded in duplicating Schmeling's achievement against a weight drained Bomber?

 

Very good comments and points.

I think that a win for Conn over Louis does seal him the top spot for light heavy.

One thing regarding the humbling of Joe Louis, if that loss had not come, what about the chances of the Cinderella Man Jimmy Braddock handing him the first loss. I would say quite high, given the circumstances of time and destiny. And if Braddock had beaten Louis then, that would make his own ranking very interesting indeed. I think his own ranking would see him ranked higher than Schmelling currently is at the moment. In fact i think quite a few people here would see him capable of beating any fighter in the world, if he put his mind to it and actually trained for it. When you think about it he may have actually beaten the greatest, at virtually his best, if he had.

 

JCC beating Pea would be a huge boost.
RJJ vs Slappy Joe.

 

i dont know about GOAT:
1. foreman beats ali
2.chavez beats whitaker
3.tyson beats foreman or holyfield
4.trinidad beats hopkins:
5. holmes beats spinks:
6. dempsey beats tunney
7.mayweather beats pacman: mayweather missed the boat on this one, if they fight now PAC catches him, 2-3 years ago mayweather wins clear cut UD.

 

I think Chavez beating DLH in the rematch.

Chavez was expected to beat Whitaker. Whitaker would probably be underrated if Chavez managed to beat him.

Chavez was viewed as shot or close to it in 1998, and it was established that WW was too high for him. It would've been crazy if he had managed to beat an undefeated DLH at a division where Chavez was too small for.

Especially since DLH weighed in unofficially in the low 160s.

 

Maybe not THE goat, but had meldrick taylor beaten chavez who knows what might have happened

 

The terribly green Rufio was a sensation before he lost to Hook. Incredibly tough and diabolical matchmaking for such a young Welterweight fighter, up against the no.1 HW and no.2 P4P ATG, and perhaps no.1 P4P fighter at the time. Like Darcy and Sanchez before him, he looked mesmerizing but was taken before his time.

Ofcourse the circumstances here are unique. In that if he had defeated Hook, he wouldnt have been taken before his time. That win alone would be massive for his legacy. He was unanimously regarded as the greatest and most formidable fighter of the criminally avoided and incredibly talented Lost Boys Row fighters. With maybe a dozen UD decisions over the dangerous and iron jawed, fellow Boys Row fighter Thud Butt, who would eventually dominate the HW division for two and a half decades after Hook's passing.

If Rufio had defeated Hook, he would certainly have been rated the fast rising superstar of all time. Would this win be enough though to surpass the glorious resume of Peter Pan though? Both versions of Pan, the elusive Prime Pan and the seasoned master Pan had victories over Hook. But of course if Rufio would have defeated Hook, then the seasoned Pan wouldnt have that victory over Hook.

How much better would a Prime Rufio had been? If he did beat Hook, a matchup with the seasoned veteran Pan would've been inevitable and he'd of had plenty time to evolve and peak as a fighter, learn to fly and crow properly. Who would've taken that one? Or the more elusive, but wreckless Prime Pan, what a matchup to consider. I think maybe the style of early 60's Pan would have trouble with the equally fast, aggressive marauding Rufio.

Theres too many what ifs. My head is hurting. Perhaps this is for another thread now. Its a shame mortality robbed us of this great talent and entertainer. It would've made for some fascinating matchups to consider..

Prime Rufio Vs young 60's Peter Pan
Prime Rufio Vs the more conservative, slower but better techincally comback Peter Pan
Prime Rufio Vs Prime Thud Butt...i feel Rufio may have always had his number. But Thudd was relatively green when they fought, and he grew into the most devastating HW the division has ever seen. The come forward style of Rufio may have played right into his chubby hands

What are your thoughts on this Boilermaker?

 

Braddock was aging, had been inactive for two years, and arthritis was taking a dreadful toll. (In fact, this was the direct reason why Jimmy retired when there was still plenty of money to be made off of lucrative bout offers. He stated that he could no longer move in reverse due to arthritis setting in.)

Nonetheless, Braddock was one of the few who genuinely had no fear of Louis, said he fought against Joe as well as he ever did against anybody, and stated that he was all right through the first four rounds before his arthritis began troubling him. I've stopped my viewing of that match after four rounds a few times, and he does indeed compete on very even terms (and more than even in the opening round) against an ATG challenger in the most important match of his career. He'd come a long way since Loughran schooled him in 1929.

When I made my previous post, I indeed did think of Braddock, and very nearly mentioned his defense against Louis as potentially successful if Joe had remained undefeated at that stage. Regardless, he defended like a champion should, and those first four rounds should be compulsory viewing when evaluating how good Jimmy could be.

 

If Jofre beat Harada?

 

Duran/Hagler.

If Duran had pulled it off in NOV83 he would have been the 1st ever to 4 genuine world title's & the 1st Undisputed Lightweight Champion to become the Undisputed Middleweight Champion & he nearly pulled it off & this in the day of only 2 govening bodies WBC/WBA when it meant something juxtaposed with the fact that Duran was meant to be all washed up after losing to Laing 12 months earlier. Nothing could usurp Durans claim & accreditation as to being the G.O.A.T. & no one has even come close in real terms to matching his acheivements.

 

I didn't mention this one, because I think he has gotten tremendous mileage anyway over the fact that he did better over the first 12 rounds against a near peak Hagler than SRL did over a markedly slowed version. As the newly departed Gil Clancy put it, "The fight belonged to Hagler, the night to Duran." Shorten it to 12 rounds, and the fight belongs to him also. Al Bernstein even described it as a "loss" for Hagler.