Which fighters would Chavez do better against than Duran would?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bogotazo, May 11, 2012.


  1. PowerPuncher

    PowerPuncher Loyal Member Full Member

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    Marcel especially is a good call, the other 2 stylistically yes, but quality level I'm not sure?
     
  2. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Marcel is a good call; this reinforces what I was thinking before, that Chavez's consistency and more reduced crouch (along with his chin) would allow him to have more success sooner against rangy punchers. It's clear that in that fight, Duran takes a while to find his rhythm and gets caught early with straight punches at the pipe thrown at a distance, which I'm not sure Chavez would have. It's also crazy to think Duran was only 18 at the time he fought him.
     
  3. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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  4. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Folks, I was pondering today how Roberto Duran would do against the Meldrick Taylor that Julio conquered in the first fight, given that his physical abilities were worn at the same level as Chavez's were. Duran was no stranger to superior speed, given his timing, defense, and accuracy, but Taylor's style required a consistent form of pressure in mounting waves that seems to suit JCC's style more than that of a faded Duran, who eventually had trouble with rangy and mobile speedsters, and the crouched bobbing and weaving seemed to benefit him as well. There's no doubt that Taylor would oblige Duran on the inside multiple times, but would a faded Roberto tire to the point of lacking a dynamic offensive and get outworked? Or would his own stylistic skill-set find him similar, or even better, success? Or is this an example where Chavez, who was just able to close the show in time, is more equipped to deal with a particular opponent?
     
  5. lora

    lora Fighting Zapata Full Member

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    Nah, Duran circa 140 is a good few notches more formidable physically ability wise than Chavez imo, especially reflexively.

    Taylor gets beat down after a frantic opening 2-3 rounds and gets used to hitting air when he tries to go for his extended flurries, especially up close.

    I've never been the biggest fan of Taylor though.At least not as someone who's going to give all the greats around this weight really tough fights.Mind you, he could have been special had he been a good puncher, no doubt there.

    140 JCC is as much a great fighter for his long reign and in the sense of solidifying\adding to his accomplishments at a higher weight when past his peak physically, rather than being a real h2h force at the weight.I've always thought he'd fall a bit short against most of the very best here.Maybe there was a slight timeframe where he had lost little from his 130\135 days, but it didn't last too long imo.The massive struggle against Taylor-rightly or wrongly-i've tended to see as being a bit more of an indicator in Chavez' decline as it was taylor being a great fighter.

    Cervantes is another i think would give Taylor a wide loss, despite the speed difference.Then again, it's probably a minority opinion i have on most points here.
     
  6. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Marcel was also a young prospect at the time though, not quite at his peak yet and at super feather where he was very good but not at his best.
     
  7. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    That's a very possible scenario.

    Wouldn't be surprised if Cervantes stopped Taylor in the latter rounds.
     
  8. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    Depends which Cervantes shows up IMO. Even in his first reign he could be sloppy and get too ragged to dictate. But yeah, clearly the superior ten stone fighter and I imagine his awkward choppy offence would bust up the always findable Taylor.

    Would be a fantastic fight either way IMO. Taylor is always pleasing on the eye at his best and Cervantes is a pleasing stylist to watch because his style is all him. Always interesting to see what he's doing IMO, some times aesthetically pleasing someone's just a little odd.

    Chavez takes Cervantes no probs IMO. Cervantes slings with him as long as he can. Don't think he's consistent enough in his generalship against a tidy offensive force like JCC who won't wilt. Again, the styles clash here guarantees a fun watch. I'll take Chavez to batter Cervantes late as Kid Pambele struggles to keep up.
     
  9. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    Yeah, Cervantes of the Furuyama fight definitely is not the one I'd put my money on.

    Agreed.
    A good clash of styles.

    Cervantes was a big, strong fighter at 140.

    I'm not sure if Chavez had the necessary physical attributes at that weight to grind towering Cervantes down.

    Cervantes using his excellent Monzon-like outside skills and imposing his size and strength at close quarters to win a hard-fought close decision is a possible scenario in my opinion.
     
  10. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    I think JCC's head movement and ability to cut off the ring will negate Cervantes' generalship to a certain extent.I just think Chavez will look the more fluid of the two and will be able to impose his offence more consistently. He has the chin to take Cervantes blows and I think he could land the accumulative blows to take Cervantes out of his game and take control.
     
  11. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Great responses guys.

    In terms of Duran at 140 (@Lora), the disclaimer for imagining Duran against Taylor would be that he would also be similarly faded, exposing some of the more base elements of each's style. I'm trying to find spaces where Chavez's more distinct stylistic strengths play to his favor, and in reducing Duran to a similar physical level, I see him having similar problems with the sheer volume at close range, despite his vastly superior skill. Duran slipped punches by angling his body to dip down and counter, or slipping side to side; Chavez's more...fluid I wanna say?...bobbing and weaving out of a crouch was what enabled him to make Taylor miss and tire IMO, which was an important component of the 12th round KO victory. Duran relied more on his craft as he got older, and sometimes being the more patient boxer-puncher saw him sacrifice some of the relentless pressure and focus on closing the distance for infighting he had more of in his prime.

    I always love discussions that involve Cervantes because of his style-his chopping right hand, his piston-like jab, his control of distance with subtle but efficient footwork, etc. He seems to match up well with defensively responsible shorter men, like Locche, despite the obvious stylistic differences between him and the two highlighted in this thread. I could see him losing to both men at 140, but if there's anyone within the same decade I'd give a shot at to beat either, it would probably be him.

    lora, I take it you find no opponent Chavez matches up better with than Duran would? No thoughts on the previous pages commenting on a handful of rangy, mobile punchers people picked out to fit the bill?
     
  12. TheSouthpaw

    TheSouthpaw Champion Full Member

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    Well..Hearns for one..
     
  13. Lester1583

    Lester1583 Can you hear this? Full Member

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    To be fair Cervantes (possibly slightly pre-prime) lost to prime Locche one-sidedly the first time they fought.

    His lack of speed and methodical style were his weaknesses.

    Cervantes - Eddie Perkins would have been a very intriguing fight.
     
  14. Flea Man

    Flea Man มวยสากล Full Member

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    No, he'd get massacred in similar fashion.
     
  15. Bogotazo

    Bogotazo Amateur Full Member

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    Very true, his losses were often due to a stiff, even robotic composure (though I do think he was slightly behind his prime in the first fight).

    Spell it out man! Care to elaborate? Interesting thought.

    Aw.