Which fights would prove that "67 Ali" was unbeatable against anyone in history ?

Me too. But Sonny could have dropped him, imo.

 

Agreed Vic The Gambler. When we mention that peak 1967 was invincible, posters will immediately point fingers at the night of June 18 1963 when Henry Cooper floored an unbeaten 21 year old Cassius Clay (Muhammad Ali). It was a legitimate knockdown, no question about it. But keep in mind, Clay was young, had a small role in a motion picture, Requiem For A Heavyweight (1962) was extremely talented with God given skills, speed, reflexes, stamina, footwork and timing. His style was new on the boxing scene, he was never floored against Sonny Liston, 10 times the puncher of Cooper, Clay or Ali did not get floored again until March 8 1971, when he lost to champion Joe Frazier in FOTC. But as champion from 1964-1967, Ali would not taste the canvas again until 1971, after he had been inactive with just two comeback fights in 1970, a total of 18 rounds. In a nutshell, the Cooper fight was just a young overconfident fighter who took a puncher like Henry Cooper too lightly, the same could be said of Ali's Feb 1962 bout with Sonny Banks, Ali got up both times, a mark of a great heart and champion.

 

Good post Richard. You touched on the difference between the raw, brash but talented youngster to the accomplished World champion he became.

We can only wonder what would have happened had Ali not been out of the ring for 3.5 years, and had what would surely have been an inevitable clash with the young, undefeated and dangerous Joe Frazier in 1968 or 69. That would have been Ali’s biggest test as champion and would have shown definitively just how great…or otherwise…the late 1960s Ali was.

 

Yank Durham, Frazier's manager and trainer Eddie Futch felt that Joe was too green for a peak Muhammad Ali in 1967, even though Frazier had stopped ranked contender George Chuvalo, Frazier was ranked no.1 contender in the Spring of 1967, he was undefeated, he also stopped a faded Eddie Machen in round 10. In an article that appeared in our local newspaper dated July 10 1967, Ali laughed at Joe Frazier saying that Joe should listen to his manager, he might get hurt if he does not pay attention to Durham. In my own opinion, I think that 1967 Ali decisions Joe, who was decked twice by Oscar Bonavena in the same round on Sept 21 1966, yet Frazier was awarded a split decision victory. Frazier was relentless and could bang but Ali with all of his physical gifts tires out a charging Frazier in route to a victory but it was not meant to be, Durham was shrewd in playing the waiting game to allow Ali to age. During Ali's 43 month absence, he lectured at colleges, did not spar, Ali's license was revoked from April 28 1967 until October 1970, Ali was awaiting his appeal on the June 20 1967 conviction of Draft evasion which could have brought Ali a 5 year sentence and $10,000.00 fine. After Ali's loss to champion Joe Frazier on March 8 1971, it was Ali who on June 28 1971 was exonerated by the U.S Supreme Court of his Draft Evasion Conviction.

 

Ali is overrated and beatable. You have no fights to watch. Tyson and Lewis would both beat him up, no matter what version shows up.

 

Very interesting read, thanks for that Richard. I can see why 1967 would be seen as too early for Joe, just as 1971 and 3.5 years out was probably too late for Ali. A clash in ‘69 would probably have been perfect for both with Frazier a couple of years more experienced and Ali still active and still very much at the top of his game.

But alas, life is life and we got what we got which was the 1971 FOTC, which wasn’t too bad…

 

Don't get rattled by any negative posters opinion of Ali. I do not, I take them as classical gas. Ali must have dated the girl that they wanted to date. But we are talking about 1967 Ali, not the 2000's Ha Ha.

 

Haha! I never get rattled by negative posters…I’ve posted a few of those over the years myself…It’s all part of the fun of t’internet. The likes of Marciano, Ali, Tyson, Foreman etc are always going to divide opinion…it’s what robust debate is all about.
Ali isn’t necessarily one of my favourites… but I appreciate his talent. If others don’t good luck to them.

 

Politics plays a role in sports. Muhammad Ali stated that he had no quarrel with the Vietnamese in 1966. So in essence we do not have a right to object to anything especially a war that could bring millions to a sagging economy, we were not supposed to win anyway.

 

Everyone is capable of being beaten. My own point with '67 Ali is that I give him better than even odds against anyone. Even Lewis and Tyson, who would both admittedly present problems for him.

I think Tyson might have a better chance than Lewis. Lewis is a conventional problem. Tyson is an unconventional problem.

 

Not sure how unconventional Mike was. No more uncoventional than, say, Frazier. In fact, where Frazier's smokin seemed to be pretty original, some of Mike's moves were borrowed from Dempsey, Duran, and I daresay Marciano.

But that's just my opinion, all respect to yours.

I think a keyed up Ali stops both Lewis and Tyson in 8.

 

To prove he's great.

 

Fergy, You might get an argument from those who detest Muhammad Ali for not going to Vietnam or maybe Ali took their love interest to the 1960 prom. They want to sic Lennox Lewis who got flattened by Hassim Rahman with one punch or maybe Klitchko who lost to Tyson Fury, on Ali of 1967 Oh, Oh, Ho, Ho, Ho. Ah Cha Cha Cha Cha, Eat your heart out Jimmy Durante.

 

2 rounds in two bouts.