Which fights would prove that "67 Ali" was unbeatable against anyone in history ?

Both Tyson and Lewis beat up Ali badly.

 

Lewis is big guy who can box well and can bang. That's existed before. He's the best of them, but still, he's just a better version of what has already existed. Tyson's combo of speed, power, accuracy/timing, explosiveness, aggression, and chin is unique.

Just my $0.02. Drop a prime Tyson down in 1965 and he immediately shocks the **** out of everyone. Drop a prime Lewis down in 1965, and real quickly he's recognized as a taller Liston-type; hard to deal with, but easily recognizable.

 

Or because of his size, Lewis resembles a taller Ernie Terrell, but with a heavier lethal punch. Terrell was 6"6. 215 lbs.

 

Same sort of thing. My point was to pick a guy who is both technically skilled and a big hitter. "A taller version of Liston" would get you a pretty good rough idea of what to expect -- there really wouldn't be any surprises upon seeing him fight.

Tyson? How do you explain him in a way where, upon seeing him fight, there is no surprise?

 

Especially in 1965, Muhammad Ali had taken care of Sonny Liston twice, defeated a Floyd Patterson who claimed that he had back issues during their Nov 1965 encounter. At 23, Ali had grown into a more experienced athlete, had the experience of the two Liston fights behind him. It is not the size of the fighter in some instances, it is sometimes the skills that matter in a fight.

 

Oh, I give him better than even odds at beating both Lewis and Tyson, probably stopping at least one of them. I just think Tyson has a bit better chance than Lewis because there's nothing about Lewis that Ali can't be ready for when he steps in the ring. Tyson? That's a ton more prep work to come up with a halfway decent plan, and if you're in 1965 and there isn't a ton of film of his fights, good luck.

 

I saw the Ali vs Patterson title bout live on Closed Circuit Television at the local High School gym on Nov 22 1965, Ali looked very loose and fluid but agreed that against a prime Mike Tyson he would have really have to be on his game, no horsing around like he did with Henry Cooper on June 18 1963, that horsing around almost gave Ali a blemish on his undefeated record at age 21 right before the title bout against Liston in Feb 1964.

 

Man, I'm jealous. How old were you? I was born in the late 70's, so I have memories of watching the three kings and Tyson as I was growing up. Would have been amazing to have been around to see a young Ali, a young Frazier, etc.

 

I was 6 years old, almost 7. My Dad and Uncle took me with them, I got to hang out with the fellas, I was so intrigued by the whole fight, I became a boxing fan and a fan of Muhammad Ali, ever since that fight. I am 64 years old. I saw all of Ali's European title bouts, 2nd cooper bout, London, Mildenberger, all live on ABC's Wide World Of Sports.

 

That's an awesome set of memories. My father is in his 70s, and his father and older brother were big boxing fans, so he got to see all the big fights as well.

I feel bad for kids now. What HW boxing memories can they have? Fury hugging Wilder to exhaustion? Blech.

 

My Mom, Dad, and Uncle are now gone but they left me with good things to be interested in.

 

Terrell is my favourite performance.

Screw anyone saying Williams.

 

The Muhammad Ali vs Ernie Terrell title unification displayed all of Ali's physical gifts at 25 years of age, he could go 15 rounds without missing a beat, he had good reflexes and timing, good footwork, great stamina and speed, he was confident as a champion, he did not lose his title in the ring, he lost it because of his beliefs, a witch hunt if you will. And by the way, we are discussing 1967 and Muhammad Ali not current fighters, yawn, like Ali or not, he was a great champion and man.

 

I agree with roughly half this. As much as I HUGELY admire Lewis, I don't think he was better than 60s Ali or 78 to 82 Holmes as a boxer. As a puncher I don't see him as good, let alone better than Sonny Liston. That said, he had a helluva shot.

I do imagine Mike would have riled things up in 65, but I don't believe he'd the rest the title from anyone except the disputed ones later (Terrell and Ellis). And I don't think Mike's style was unique at all, you can see both the Duran and Dempsey moves popping up all through the 80s, and there was some Frazier there in how he brought the hook up from his heels. He dug in and used a lot of legs in his hook not many did that as well as Joe... in fact I don't think I saw anyone beyond Mike or Joe so effectively employing their quads, hamstrings, and lower back into their hooks.

But these are just my opinions, no disrespect intended.

 

I don't think he was better than 60's Ali or 78-82 Holmes as a boxer either. He was a bit behind them. But combine that with his height, reach, and power, and that's why he's rated highly.

When I said he was "the best of them", I meant big guys who can both box and bang. Ali and Holmes don't really count here; although they both knocked out plenty of guys, neither is really considered a big puncher.

It isn't Mikes style that's particularly unique. It's his physical attributes. To have both top tier speed and power is something very unique for a HW, especially when combined with a good chin and excellent timing and accuracy. I can't think of anyone else like that.