Which fights would prove that "67 Ali" was unbeatable against anyone in history ?

RulesMakeItInteresting · Apr 16, 2023

Barrf said: ↑

I don't think he was better than 60's Ali or 78-82 Holmes as a boxer either. He was a bit behind them. But combine that with his height, reach, and power, and that's why he's rated highly.

When I said he was "the best of them", I meant big guys who can both box and bang. Ali and Holmes don't really count here; although they both knocked out plenty of guys, neither is really considered a big puncher.

It isn't Mikes style that's particularly unique. It's his physical attributes. To have both top tier speed and power is something very unique for a HW, especially when combined with a good chin and excellent timing and accuracy. I can't think of anyone else like that.
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I have to give you those points, for sure.

Richard M Murrieta · Apr 16, 2023

RulesMakeItInteresting said: ↑

I agree with roughly half this. As much as I HUGELY admire Lewis, I don't think he was better than 60s Ali or 78 to 82 Holmes as a boxer. As a puncher I don't see him as good, let alone better than Sonny Liston. That said, he had a helluva shot.

I do imagine Mike would have riled things up in 65, but I don't believe he'd the rest the title from anyone except the disputed ones later (Terrell and Ellis). And I don't think Mike's style was unique at all, you can see both the Duran and Dempsey moves popping up all through the 80s, and there was some Frazier there in how he brought the hook up from his heels. He dug in and used a lot of legs in his hook not many did that as well as Joe... in fact I don't think I saw anyone beyond Mike or Joe so effectively employing their quads, hamstrings, and lower back into their hooks.

But these are just my opinions, no disrespect intended.
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You are like Howard Cosell my friend, you tell it like it is, no brag just fact. Ha Ha.

Richard M Murrieta · Apr 16, 2023

Barrf said: ↑

I don't think he was better than 60's Ali or 78-82 Holmes as a boxer either. He was a bit behind them. But combine that with his height, reach, and power, and that's why he's rated highly.

When I said he was "the best of them", I meant big guys who can both box and bang. Ali and Holmes don't really count here; although they both knocked out plenty of guys, neither is really considered a big puncher.

It isn't Mikes style that's particularly unique. It's his physical attributes. To have both top tier speed and power is something very unique for a HW, especially when combined with a good chin and excellent timing and accuracy. I can't think of anyone else like that.
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People who despise Muhammad Ali are always going to drag in fighters who were giants with glass chins, pop goes the shattered chin made of glass. Ha Ha.

Richard M Murrieta · Apr 16, 2023

James Page said: ↑

I have recently been rewatching "63 Ali", currently about half way through the Doug Jones fight.

Ali certainly is entertaining to watch, but I am still not seeing this mythical, untouchable, walks on water HW that no the other fighters in history could contend with, as Ali is typically propped up to be.

Even in the 60s, Ali seems quite hittable, and Doug Jones has already staggered him backwards early on in the fight (way worse than Mosely ever staggered Mayweather)...

I think if a young Ali backpedalled like that against a Tyson or a Lewis, it could quickly turn in to a lights out situation for him...

I was also not overly blown away by the Liston fights

70s Ali certainly took way too many clean punches to be considered any type of defensive savant, and he had a bad habit of languishing on the ropes that I think would turn deadly against a young lion like Tyson or the methodical destruction of a Lewis...

But I regularly see on this forum that "67 Ali" is the true version that we should all judge him by.
His hand speed and accuracy were unparalleled, his footwork was unprecedented, he was more elusive than a prime Pernell Whitaker, and no other HW in history would stand a chance against this version of Ali, and for anyone to suggest otherwise proves they dont know S about boxing... With all due respect, Muhammad Ali of the 1970's was full of too much drama, he let his body get pudgy, got beat by Frazier and Norton, goy his jaw busted by Norton. Ali of 1967 is way better.

For the record, I think this is absolutely absurd. but I recognize I am the only person on this or any other forum who sees it this way. Everyone else has drank the Kool Aide, and most of them even take bubble baths in it.

So what fights, against which opponents, should I watch from his collection that will prove to me that guys like Lewis and Tyson and anyone else would stand no chance against "67 Ali"?
That it would be better to fake an injury and pull out of the fight because there would just be no point in fighting "67 Ali" , because you'd have no chance of landing on him and he's just too much of an offensive juggernaut and no man who has ever walked the earth could break his style?
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Bummy Davis · Apr 17, 2023

many great fighters in each era and Ali had his share of struggles early on -191 lbs Sonny Banks dropped him, 188 lb Doug Jones gave him a rough battle, he was dropped by 185lb Henry Cooper and both Liston fights were suspect (Did Liston get that bad or was he not that good or did he tank)

In my opinion Ali's greatness came in the comeback, after the loss to Frazier and a good win over Quarry and a tough war with Bonavena.
His great fights were the 2 Frazier rematches - his KO over George Foreman and his ability to come back in rematches with Norton (who was a troublesome style for Ali

AS far as will to win speed and ring brains and heart Ali is up there with the best -anywhere in the top 1-3 but to say he wouldn't lose in another era to a Joe Louis, Marciano, Dempsey, Tyson, Fury, Lewis, etc. I would not bet the house on it.

Ali had a great resume among other great gifts but unbeatable NO.

mr. magoo · Apr 17, 2023

Well according to popular opinion around here I’m not sure if prime Ali would beat Zhilei Zhang

Richard M Murrieta · Apr 17, 2023

mr. magoo said: ↑

Well according to popular opinion around here I’m not sure if prime Ali would beat Zhilei Zhang
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Because he is a youngster, the younger generation dislikes our heroes and vice versa.

swagdelfadeel · Apr 17, 2023

mr. magoo said: ↑

Well according to popular opinion around here I’m not sure if prime Ali would beat Zhilei Zhang
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Which fights would prove that "67 Ali" was unbeatable against anyone in history ?

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Which fights would prove that "67 Ali" was unbeatable against anyone in history ?

RulesMakeItInteresting Boxing Junkie Full Member

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