Which group was better in the early to mid 1980's

In the early 80s, when they were all top contenders, the trio of Dokes, Page and Coetzee were far tougher than the combination of Spoon, Spinks and Smith.

Bonecrusher was 14-1 when he fought Holmes. And he'd lost every round to Frank Bruno in his previous fight before stopping Bruno in the last round. Smith had no business at all in the ring with Holmes.

Michael Spinks, while I have always been a fan, would've lost to the early 80s versions of all three (Dokes, Page and Coetzee) fighters.

Witherspoon was the toughest challenger in his group (on a good day), but as he showed in the Smith rematch, there was a lot of "dog" in him. (You could say the same about Greg Page in the other group, too.)

Dokes and Coetzee were real threats to Holmes. And Holmes viewed Page as a big enough threat that he vacated his title rather than fighting him.

Holmes never considered Spoon, Smith or Spinks as "threats." All three were "picked" because Holmes (and King) felt Larry would win easily. Spoon and Smith were relative novices, and Spinks was supposed to be the easy win to tie Marciano's record.

Let's put it this way. Had Holmes beaten Spinks, he was supposed to fight Alfonzo Ratliff in his 50th fight. That's how highly Spoon, Smith and Spinks were viewed prior to Holmes fighting them. On the level of Alfonzo Ratliff.

 

Two years after Page became his #1 contender and Holmes did everything he could to prevent the fight with ridiculous demands before flat out dumping the title to face 10-0 Marvis Frazier.

 

Where's Pink?

 

Witherspoon, Smith, and Spinks... but Dokes was pretty damn good when he wanted to be. Page had skills but could be outworked. Coetzee could punch but was pretty beatable by top HWs.

I thought we were talking about the likes of AC/DC, Van Halen, The Police, U2, Duran Duran, and others.

 

I agree with this. Context is key here.

 

Agreed,

I think that a combination of factors led to some of those fights not materializing. But probably "most" of the onus is on Holmes' shoulders. To be fair he didn't necessarily have to face EVERY top gun in the division, but a few more of them would have decreased the future criticisms significantly.

 

Remember Dokes couldn't punch, which hurt him a lot in his later fights.

 

I saw The Police, U2 and AC/DC in the early 80s. I'd take them. I never cared for Van Halen live. David Lee Roth was/is awful live. Although the "Women and Children First" album had two of my favorite songs - Everybody Wants Some/And the Cradle Will Rock.

 

It's obvious to me Holmes wanted no part of tough young guns after the Witherspoon Fight. And the fact they were all Don King fighters meant he would have had to have fought at least some of them. Thus, he jumped ship and accepted the newly created IBF title. It's as clear as day as to this happening.

 

You can call me a wuss if you like, but I really liked Journey. I saw both Journey and Van Halen (with Hagar) live in '86 at separate shows at the ol' Capitol Centre in Landover, MD. I have to say though that Van Halen was better with David Lee Roth.

 

and he was a Cocaine Addict. I think it played a part in the Coetzee loss.

 

Yeah, I heard he was high in the ring fighting Coetzee. And losing in front of your hometown, that's some f****d up s**t.

 

I have to admit I saw Journey in 1983. They were huge back then. And I agree that Van Halen was better with David Lee Roth. I just didn't think Roth was very good live as a singer. I like their studio songs better with him out front. I lost interest in them when they started using synthesizers.

 

I like all Van Halen and actually prefer Hagar, but from the sound of it, I may be younger than you are. I was 10 years old when their 1984 album came out, so I can't exactly say that I am of the " Lee Roth" generation.