Which Heavyweights fall from Rocky's right?

It is a joy to read you, sir...and learn. Happy New Year! :happy

 

This is true in regards to strength and stamina, and even the hardness of their character. However, both Carnera and Willard lacked even a modicum of hand or foot speed, decent balance or displayed, on surviving footage at least, what today would be considered elite physical skillset for the sport.

A very few superheavies since have shown these skills and physical abilities on the elite level... Bowe, Lewis, Klits... you know the names.

 

Burt, I'm all for a bit of nostalgia, but lets not turn it into blatant revisionism.

Carnera was a circus freak, sponsored by " business men " of dubious character in the US, and some of his decisions were equally if not more dubious than said businessmen.

The pace and skill level which he and Willard fought at was nothing like the big guys of the last 15 - 20 years. And as for the reference to Willard flattening the arm over his eyes, to shield them from the sun Jack Johnson, the less said about that the better.

Neither of those 2 would last more than a couple of rounds with either K brother, or Lennox.

 

So essentially the question posed is: could that punch flatten a modern 220+ heavyweight?

If it landed in those exact same circumstances, of course it could. That punch not so much landed on Walcott as went through him. Thrown with every ounce Rocco had behind it, right on the jaw, with Walcott coming in. It couldn't have landed any better.

No reason to think that he could not do the same to a man 30,40 lbs. heavier. As Mongoose said, Walcott looked dead. No stirring, no movement, no nothing. I'm surprised he had the guts to fight Marciano again, after receiving that shot.

 

Willard knocked him out. Willard was starting to take control of that fight, watch the film. And I have seen plenty of fighters with their arms in the air after getting KO'd. Johnson made a lot of dubious claims, this one taking the proverbial cake.

 

exactly....he was 37 yrs old...and was understandably blowing from 20th round onwards.

 

So sir, what you are implying to me is that if I challenge your bogus opinions that today's dreadnaught heavyweights are better conditioned than the fighters of yesterday, I am tainted with a sickness labeled
"nostalgia", why not just put an "asterisk" after my posts and be done with ?....
Oh, in addition I am now a revisionist....Thank you very kindly...By the way
in the future if you have to call me anything, just call me for dinner ...

 

IMHO not many/any would withstand it....But I am of the school of thought where the right punch or accumulation can penetrate any chin......rather than the school of thought where the right chin can endure any punch and/or accumulation.

 

If you feel they are bogus opinions, challenge them any way you feel fit. Do give examples please of the hand speed, footspeed, workrate, mobility, ring generalship, power, coordination, and indeed conditioning of the likes of Willard, and Carnera being superior to those of the K2 bros, and LL.

 

I suggest you watch the film again Seamus.

Jacks left glove / forearm is directly covering his eyes, with the right arm higher than that. A guy knocked out doesn't know if the sun is shining or not.

 

I see that some people think that the size of the opponent wouldn't matter if hit by that punch. They think that Marciano's power carries up against anyone. I'm not buying it for a split second. Like it or not, but size matters. It helps absorb the force of the punch. Furthermore, Marciano never demonstrated that he could knock out legitimate, large heavyweights. In fact, he never beat a single good BIG heavyweight in his career. So how can you just assume that he knocks out everyone?

Keep in mind that at 185 lbs in the ring, Marciano is the size of the average LHW today. Not even a particularly large LHW. He would be very small at cruiser, where the top guys come in at 200 and then put on another 10-15-20 lbs after the weigh-in.

 

Don't worry rusak. I'm sure it won't be too long before some nostalgist claims Marciano knocks out both McCall and Vitali, whether it be by the same punch as the Walcott one or just generally speaking.

 

"Like it or not, size matters. It helps absorb the force of the punch."

Common sense would back you up on this, but I don't think history does. One problem is that the head doesn't get that much bigger. We are not talking about something like blocking a 300 lb man in American football. We are talking about hitting a man in the head and the shock effect on the brain as it rattles about the skull.

I think it is a hard sell that a big man like Carnera took a punch better than all kinds of small men like Dempsey, Tunney, Marciano, etc.,

And there is the problem that it is harder to hit a smaller, quicker man.

*the bottom line for me, and it's just guesswork, is that the skull of a big man does not get so much thicker that it protects his brain from the shock of a punch.

An analogy might be shooting a deer or a buffalo with a high-powered rifle. The buffalo is bigger and tougher but it doesn't matter because it is not big or tough enough to withstand the impact. The deer might actually be the harder kill because of its speed and agility.

 

I really think the question of if and how much better a big man takes a punch is a super complex problem.

The sheer weight of the bigger man might cause his body not to move with the punch and thus the head takes the impact. A lighter body might involuntarily roll with the punch. A tree which can't bend to the wind breaks in the wind and so the sheer flexibility of a lighter man might give him an up here. I not saying it is decisive, but it could obviate the advantage of just being bigger and might explain why big men have on the whole not been that difficult to knock out historically.

If a 180 lb man is hit by a straight right, the impact might be taken by his whole body going backward, either falling backward or staggering backward. A 240 lb man, because of the extra weight, might not go backward as easily, and thus the impact has to be absorbed by the head and neck.

It is also true that if hit coming forward, the inertia of a heavier man should actually increase the impact.

 

Marciano's punch is not a high-powered rifle. You have no objective reason to compare it to that. He never beat a single good BIG (i.e. REAL) heavyweight in his career. You would think that Marciano made a career of dropping and stopping big heavies with iron chins but it never happened. Marciano did not demonstrate any kind of one punch power against weak-chinned former LHW ****ell and that was in 8 ounce gloves. The gloves are bigger now.

The idea that a 185 lb puncher's power carries up against anyone is disproved by reality. Where is the 185 lb plodder dominating the heavyweight scene? You have plenty of fighters this size fighting at LHW today. You think they don't want the money that comes with winning the HW title?