Which light heavy has the best bet of beating a Liston or Foreman

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by InMemoryofJakeLamotta, Sep 23, 2019.


  1. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Best bet? no one
     
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  2. Jackomano

    Jackomano Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Tarver even when he was way past his prime and fat didn't any trouble fighting at heavyweight, since even as an old fighter he was both an intelligent and crafty fighter as well as still being durable.

    Also, Frazier, who is one of my favorite fighters to watch was a headstrong fighter, which is why he didn't make any adjustments when fought Foreman and got blown out of the water as easily as he did. Even Frazier himself admitted he fought an incredibly stupid fight. Frazier kept staying right in front of Foreman, which is why Moore advised Foreman to push him away every time he did it. No intelligent light heavyweight is going to stand right in front of Foreman and be an easy target to get muscled by him.

    Foreman didn't destroy Peralta, who fought him in close in the first fight. Also, against a clever fighter Foreman isn't going to easily land his body punches. Young also fought him in close, but had a hard time with Foreman because he was overweight. I highly doubt Foreman would easily muscle Tarver around, since Tarver's footwork and ring ability would never have him directly in front of Foreman and Foreman would be eating a lot of punches.

    My trainer was specifically brought in as an sparring partner because Foreman couldn't knockout him out. If Foreman could easily brutalize his sparring partners than they are worthless as a sparring partner. Also, it isn't about showing off his power, but trying to trap and finish off the smaller man, which is hard if the smaller guy is experienced and can punch. Bigger guys train to get smaller guys out quick, since the bigger fighter has a higher chance of running out of steam as the fight progresses. My trainer basically made his money as a sparring partner for guys like Quarry, Lyle, etc.. for when they fought lighter mobile heavyweights, who were tricky and hard to land on.

    In the first fight against Peralta Foreman didn't have the right sparring partners and tried to overpower Peralta, but it didn't work and he barely got the decision. Unlike Fraizer, Peralta used his feet while on the inside and was always in a good position and never directly in front of Foreman, so despite the size difference Foreman couldn't just bully him around like he did other fighters and was missing most of his punches. Peralta was also letting his hands go a lot to keep Foreman honest. Young did the same thing to him. Going into the rematch my trainer and quite a few other tough middleweights and light heavyweights were brought in by Saddler and put Foreman through h**l, so he was prepared. In the rematch Foreman focused more on trapping Peralta against the ropes and was able to get the stoppage, but it still didn't come easy.
     
  3. ETM

    ETM I thought I did enough to win. Full Member

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    I would take Billy Conn because he was a great boxer. Billy wouldn't try to match strength with them. He would move side to side, quick 1-2s and be gone.
    Conn had the guts to execute it. Whether he pulls it off is another question. To me that is better than a Light Heavyweight who is gonna bulk up and lose what made them effective.
     
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  4. George Crowcroft

    George Crowcroft Foot Fetish Enthusiast. Nuff Said. Full Member

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    Revisionist History?

    Did I get it right?
     
  5. GOAT Primo Carnera

    GOAT Primo Carnera Active Member Full Member

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    I´ll repeat: R O C C O :drums: M A R C I A N O !

    Did always beat Listons, Foremans, Ibeabuchis and Tuas @BF24!
     
  6. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Liston and Foreman would execute Rocky like he was sitting in an electric chair
     
  7. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I can't think of one Lt. Heavy could get a win against prime Liston or Foreman. Maybe Moore, Charles or Spinks could cause early issues. But in the end they all would ge KO'ed. Prime Foreman and Liston ain't J.Ruiz , who was defeated by R.Jones, ( Perfect matchmaking on Jones part) or H.Rahman or S.Peters who caught hell from a FAT J.Toney. Foreman and Liston were big men that could fight, and a 35-50 lbs weight advantage along with their skill level would eventually prove disastrous to any Natural light heavy fighting at that weight.
     
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  8. Richard M Murrieta

    Richard M Murrieta Active Member Full Member

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    Maybe Archie Moore of 1955, he later became a young Cassius Clay's trainer, following the 1960 Olympic games in Rome. Clay did not care for the discipline of Moore, then proceeded to Angelo Dundee, the rest is history. Later Richard Sadler and Archie trained Big George all the way to the title in 1973, and after, until Foreman retired in 1977.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  9. GoldenHulk

    GoldenHulk Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Michael Spinks against a very old Liston and old Foreman by decision. Against a prime Liston and prime Foreman no one.
    I do like the Foreman vs Qawi fight. Dwight is one of my favorite boxers, and he was quite a pest against Foreman, I love when he really nailed George with some good shots.
     
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  10. lloydturnip

    lloydturnip Well-Known Member Full Member

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    None .possibly Spinks .tough gig for any L/H
     
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  11. Grapefruit

    Grapefruit Active Member Full Member

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    The lightheavyweight Roy would stand the best chance, of course Roy would have to go for a points win and avoid taking any hits all night which would be a little far fetched in my mind, I really dont favor spinks like some said, if he was terrified of fighting Tyson and went down from 6 punches from him then foreman or especially liston would scare him more and put him down just about as fast. In truth I dont favor any lightheavies against liston or foreman I think they would both be too overwhelming for smaller men.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2019
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  12. Flash24

    Flash24 Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I also feel that way about Spinks, If Tyson had him beat WELL before he stepped in the ring the night they fought( Or Tyson came to fight, Spinks was looking for a clean spot to lay down. ) How terrified would he be looking up at George Foreman, or That STARE From Sonny Liston, both men were bigger and more intimidating than Tyson.
     
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  13. ironchamp

    ironchamp Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It's one thing for a great LHW to survive against Liston and Foreman (at their respective peak) and a totally different thing to be able to put the kind of offense together that can pull of the win.

    I simply can't see any Light Heavyweight actually beating both prime Liston and prime Foreman. The only ones who could conceivably pull of the miracle IMHO are probably Michael Spinks, Roy Jones jr and maybe Gene Tunney. But even then I'd still be more comfortable with them facing older, past prime versions.
     
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  14. choklab

    choklab cocoon of horror Full Member

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    I am not sure Tyson fought the best version of Spinks.

    Spinks let himself down against Tyson, probably because deep down he knew he had not fought world class opposition for so long, had bad knees and was lacking real ambition. He only wanted to beat Holmes but everyone has a price and it is hard to say no.

    If you look at the record Spinks was doomed.

    Since Spinks became a heavyweight Tyson had fought 26 times to Michaels 4 fights. Tyson had won 7 championship fights and beat 6 heavyweight champions. Spinks had only ever fought one championship level heavyweight opponent. Since Spinks was last in a ring Tyson had fought 4 times.

    It is very difficult for any fighter to do himself justice against those kind of odds.
     
  15. RulesMakeItInteresting

    RulesMakeItInteresting Well-Known Member Full Member

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    I think those two and MAYBE Mike had the capability to do that. Another name I don't see often ine context of Rocky: Ken Norton.

    Brawl or blow out?
     


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