Which name boosts Wilder’s ATG standing most?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Wig, Jul 8, 2023.

?

Which name adds most weight to Wilder’s legacy

  1. Fury IV

    10 vote(s)
    13.7%
  2. USKY

    57 vote(s)
    78.1%
  3. Joshua/Whyteleafe winner

    6 vote(s)
    8.2%
  1. BM237

    BM237 Member banned Full Member

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    Wilder atg ?? :D:D. ATG duck maybe
     
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  2. BM237

    BM237 Member banned Full Member

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    So Usyk gets knocked down because glass jawed duck got knocked down?
     
  3. Manfred

    Manfred Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Wilder is not and never will be an ATG in my book. The man cannot box.
     
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  4. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Ortiz can only fight who will get in the ring with him. Povetkin's team admitted to ducking it in 2014, Joyce's trainer admitted to ducking it in 2019, Ruiz ducked for years, Takam pulled out to fight someone else, who he didn't fight, Chisora said he had no interest in fighting Ortiz, Matchroom's heavies no doubt were steered away or ducked, Fury said he had no interest unless Ortiz beat Wilder, Wlad wasn't sending contracts to Ortiz when he was fighting Alex Leapai. By the time Ortiz finally got a title shot he was on the cusp of 39.

    Ortiz’s best winning performances against mutual opponents relative to rivals

    Page: 3-0 Ortiz KO’d 53 fight veteran Page in 8 in America, who was in the midst of a 6 year, 44 fight streak where only Ortiz stopped him among a slew of contenders and champions.

    Kayode: Ortiz KO’d 20-0-1 Kayode in 1. Kayode had fought former light heavyweight champion Tarver to a 12 round draw as a 3/1 underdog in America. Ortiz stopped 6th Ring ranked cruiserweight turned heavyweight Kayode 5 rounds earlier than anyone else would in 28 fights.

    Jennings: Ortiz outboxed and KO’d 19-1 Jennings in 7 in America, who was coming off a 9-3 loss to lineal heavyweight champion and P4P No.2 Wlad. Ortiz stopped 6th Ring ranked heavyweight Jennings 5 rounds earlier than anyone else would in 28 fights. Jennings went on to give 9-0, 9 KO’s Joyce a highly competitive fight over the 12 round distance in Britain.

    Thompson: Ortiz shut out and KO’d Thompson in 6 in America. Thompson had gone 12 rounds with Pulev in Germany and 12 rounds with Takam in France in the previous 30 months, losing 9-3 both times and had only been stopped by Wlad in 46 fights prior to Ortiz.

    Scott: Ortiz shut out Scott over 12 and dropped him three times: the only time Scott was outpointed in 42 fights. Scott had previously beat Thompson 7-3 and given Chisora a highly competitive fight over 6 in Britain (ahead on points after 5 rounds) before the referee allowed him to find an easy way out, which wasn’t allowed against Ortiz.

    Allen: Ortiz shut out and KO’d 9-1-1 Allen in 7 in Britain. Allen had landed almost 4x as many punches on Whyte according to Compubox over the 10 round distance in his previous fight. Ortiz stopped Allen 3 rounds earlier than anyone else has in 28 fights.

    Cojanu: 39 year old Ortiz KO’d Cojanu in 2 with one punch. Cojanu had gone the 12 round distance with heavyweight titlist Parker in New Zealand in his previous fight.

    Martin: 42 year old Ortiz got off the canvas twice to KO former titlist Martin in 6. Martin went on to take highly touted prospect Anderson the 10 round distance, ending his 14 KO streak in a somewhat competitive fight.
     
  5. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Usyk has the GOAT run at cruiser so it's that plus the Chisora and Joshua x2 wins that get him there.

    But there will be many claiming that Joshua was "mentally shot" if Wilder beats him, therefore Wilder shouldn't get much credit. Of course this ignores that Wilder was battered twice by Fury (more punishment than Joshua's ever taken in a single fight in either) and is 4 years older than Joshua, without a significant advantage in championship experience. It also ignores the fact that Joshua was destroyed by Ruiz and arguably softened up by the time that Usyk got to him.

    So if Joshua "wasn't the same after the Wlad fight" (which he won!), or the Ruiz fight, or the Usyk fights, we can only conclude that he was always mentally weaker than Wilder, who didn't lose confidence or will to win despite a life and death with Ortiz, the first Fury KO or the 2nd Fury KO.
     
  6. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    You and I cannot box, which is why we're not Olympic medallists and long-reigning heavyweight champions.
     
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  7. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    Shavers failed to KO many journeymen types and even lost to some of them. That's a pitiful era.
     
  8. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    What! an era with Ali, Foreman, Lyle, Norton, Frazier, Holmes, Quarry, Chuvalo, Bonavena, etc. etc. is pitiful?
    Shavers ko'ed 2 former heavyweight champions, Ellis and Norton . Stopping Norton was something the greatest of all time couldn't do in 3 fights.
    You are in 1st place for worst post of the year.
     
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  9. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    It was a pitiful era in terms of ability and the range of styles/body types. Ellis was still a middleweight at 24 years old and Norton had a poor chin, hence he got KO'd by every puncher he ever fought, was dropped many times by journeymen and was even KO'd by a journeyman.
     
  10. Reinhardt

    Reinhardt Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    2nd worst post
     
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  11. Dynamicpuncher

    Dynamicpuncher Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Yeah he is he got laughed off the forum and then banned when he kept making Lennox Lewis hate threads on his other account "ShortRound".

    Hes been banned twice on "Neetzschean" "ShortRound" probably had more accounts who knows.

    He'll only discuss Heavyweight boxing and waffle on with the same old nonsense.

    Same guy that believes Usyk beats a prime Mike Tyson, and Ali has less than 5 percent vs Usyk LOL.

    Same guy that believes Chisora beats Joe Louis LOL.

    And yet apparently I'm the one with an agenda who's biased ok then.

    Why I even took him off ignore and wasted my time engaging with a moron like him god knows, but don't worry he went straight back on ignore where he belongs.

    I actually think hes just a troll and don't believe half of what he says and does it to deliberately get a rise out of people.

    Do yourself a favour @Reinhardt and just ignore him don't waste your time. Sooner or later he'll probably be banned again anyway.
     
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  12. Reg

    Reg Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Why did you right an entire essay trying to convince somebody that Ortiz is good when they literally admitted the fact in the post you are replying to?
     
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  13. Redbeard7

    Redbeard7 Boxing Addict Full Member

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    *Write

    Barring the first paragraph it was a copy + paste from Word. It's there for anyone who wants to read it.
     
  14. Dubblechin

    Dubblechin Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    If Wilder fights and KOs Usyk when Usyk has all of his belts, that would mean Wilder won every heavyweight belt in the four-belt era. That's a boost to the fans whose primary focus is belts (regardless of how people get them). If Usyk doesn't have them all, or loses first before Wilder beats him, Usyk becomes a far less interesting win.

    If Wilder fights Joshua in Saudi and KOs him, even though it's a non-title fight, that is a big win. Wilder and Joshua were the top two at heavyweight for years. People all over the world are interested in that one ... just to know which one is the better man. That fight carries a lot of weight.

    But, honestly, the biggest fight to win would be Tyson Fury. If Wilder stopped Fury, he'd have stopped every man he ever faced and Wilder would become the "true" heavyweight champion.

    I can see him knocking off Usyk and Joshua in pretty short order. But even if Wilder knocked out Usyk and won the RING belt, people wouldn't recognize Wilder as the true champ because Usyk isn't the true champ. (All Usyk's belts were taken from Fury. He never lost them in the ring.)

    Fury will always be the KO Wilder needs to cap off a pretty stellar career. But it took a court order to get Fury in the ring last time. So I doubt we'll ever see a fourth fight.

    Of course, if either Fury or Joshua or Usyk loses before Wilder fights next, the person who would be the biggest win would likely change.

    Regardless, historians will be much kinder to Wilder than British fans on this board have been. They always are. He's had a top level career. He'll be 38 before he steps in the ring again. Only a couple great nights left.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2023
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  15. Wig

    Wig Boxing Addict Full Member

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    What a post. This has it all. Bravo sir.
     
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