Which Of Rocky's Fights Were Fixed?

Just on the alleged Dempsey-Johnson fight--these reports are so scattered and weak that even if some sort of fight happened, I would question whether these fighters were the REAL Jack Dempsey and Jack Johnson, or merely actors putting on a hoax.

An for Marciano as a pro baseball player--I might be wrong, but I think you could be a pro in one sport and an amateur in another in the USA at that time. Thorpe was dealing with the Olympics and international rules. Anyone know for certain?

There were also weird semi-pro rules. I know of football players who played pro and then returned openly to play in college.

No doubt at all though that fighting pro under an assumed name and then going back to amateur was dishonest, although I doubt if Marciano was very unique in this regard.

 

I think Ray Robinson talks about it in his book, there were smokers or semi-pro bouts that you would get a watch instead of cash but they would exchange it for cash post fight so you would get your $36.25 in exchange for the watch so it kept it amateur and unpaid of course you could always sell your prize

My uncle played semi-pro football in an outside league in another town while he still played amateur for a school but he never was able to take it pro so I guess its a mute point

 

Which Johnny Boz ?

 

As far as Marciano and baseball, I don't think there was anything untoward at all about that because everyone would have known about it if he was under contract to the Cubs organization. I think he only tried out.

I know there were players back in that era who played pro football and were paid (although I don't think in the NFL) who ended up going back to college under the GI bill. But that was a GI dispensation when WWII veterans were given special treatment after the war. A lot of guys playing college football back then were in their thirties.

Of course, in America, most of the amateur rules were honored in the breach. There were all kinds of ways of paying "amateurs" off the books. College alumni handled it for football and basketball players. Off hour jobs that no one expected you to show up for, gifts, compensations, etc. The football player Hugh McElhenny famously commented when asked the big difference between playing for the pro NFL San Francisco 49ers and the college Washington Huskies, "the big pay cut."

My own favorite was the Washington Redskin (I forgot his name) who played four years for Oklahoma State but became a spokesman against adult illiteracy as he had never learned to read. Wonder how he managed to attend a major university and play on their football team for four years.

 

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Is there more than one?

 

That's the crazy thing about Rocky, he would have chose baseball over boxing if he had of made it into the team he tried out for. Boxing was just his backup.

 

"that was the reason for the assumed name wasn't it?"

Could be. On the other hand, all his fights were under an assumed name, just later a different one. All the fights of Henry Armstrong, Joe Louis, Archie Moore, and Sugar Ray Robinson were also under assumed names.

The conclusion is being drawn that the use of the assumed name was for deception, and I am not certain of that. It could have been just to fit on the marquee.

And do you know as a fact that if Marciano leveled with the Golden Gloves about this fight, he would not have been allowed to compete? Were American rules of "amateurism" set in stone, or were they somewhat flexible with discretion given to the authorities? And are you certain Marciano didn't in fact level with them?

Whatever, the bottom line for me is that Marciano was not a particularly experienced fighter, amateur or pro. His opponents might well have had more experience than he did. This whole thing is a beside the point point important only to someone obsessed with amateur virginity.

 

Just a couple of points--on baseball, he had a tryout, but was he ever signed to a contract and was he ever paid anything at all? I have never seen any evidence of a contract or payment.

As for Skehan, I think you are referring to this-page 59 on my copy

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"Allie and Rocky had agreed that Marciano should change his name for this fight to protect his amateur status, should he decide against pursuing a professional boxing career.
'It's Saint Patrick's day," Columbo said. "Why don't we give you an Irish name?'
'Me an Irishman?' Rocky giggled. 'That's funny.'
'Why don't we call you Rocky Mack?'
'Good thinking, Allie,' Rocky said. 'I sure don't want Ma to find out I'm fighting. She'll murder me. Rocky Mack is fine.'"
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Gosh, this writer not only knows what was said in this private conversation, but even knows that Rocky giggled. This is most impressive as my copy gives the copyright date as 1977, thirty years after this exchange supposedly took place. Both Columbo and Marciano died in 1969, eight years earlier, so I would at least wonder how Skehan got such a detailed account of this conversation.

Basically, this isn't history without Skehan footnoting where his knowledge of this conversation came from. I have no idea if he got this from some friend or relative recalling what he thought he remembered from either Columbo or Marciano, which would be from years earlier, or if his source is merely guessing, or if there is no source at all but Skehan is guessing.

My bottom line is that he is quoting a private conversation between two men long dead.

We all have our own standards of proof, but this one doesn't meet mine.

 

Proof please.

 

Thanks, cool pic!

 

My own favorite was the Washington Redskin (I forgot his name) who played four years for Oklahoma State but became a spokesman against adult illiteracy as he had never learned to read. Wonder how he managed to attend a major university and play on their football team for four years.[/QUOTE]x

Dexter Manley

 

This is true. Rocky tried out and wanted to be a cather. Ironically enough the knock on him was his arm wasn't good enough to throw out base runners.