Which of the following would beat Tubbs at his best?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by mrkoolkevin, Mar 19, 2016.


  1. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    This is the main issue here and I think it's insurmountable.
     
  2. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    This is all the territory of assumptions. Some assumptions are far more logical and plausible than others though. Your assumption, that the heavies in Corbett's day were better or would fare well against the heavies of Tubbs' day is completely baseless. The heavies of Tubbs' day are physically superior, have better developed skills (mobility, combination punching, working off the jab, punching while staying on balance and in fighting position, etc.), better training and nutrition (and in some instances, "supplements"), and more experience at the world class level. Other than over-zealous hero worship and romanticization of the mystic past, there is simply no reason to start with any presumption other than that the heavies of Tubbs' era were far superior.
     
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  3. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    This is really good boxing. Loughrans footwork, pivots, and agility are really top notch.
     
  4. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Okay, let's talk fundamentals. Was Muhammad Ali, the greatest HW of all time, fundamentally better than Tubbs?

    Ali didn't throw body shots, he pulled his head back, and he kept his hands dangerously low.
     
  5. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    You see very good boxing, I see very good for its time boxing. Please be honest, I'm really trying to get a sense of your thought process: If Loughran were replaced by Holmes, Tubbs, Tucker, Witherspoon, Douglas, or Carl Williams, etc., how would you expect the style and outcome of this fight to change? Can you spot any likely differences in the tactics, techniques, and strategies they would employ against Micky Walker?
     
  6. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Do you see any differences between how Loughran fought a smaller man in that clip and how Douglas fought a far more dangerous and explosive smaller man here?

    https://streamable.com/kmoo

    Honest question.
     
  7. foreman&dempsey

    foreman&dempsey Boxing Addict banned

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    You forgot mano de piedra duran
     
  8. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Yes. The biggest different I see between Loughran and Tubbs, is that Loughran can shift the entire placement of his body with both feet, at the same speed, if not faster, than Tubbs shifts the weight of his body from one foot to another.

    I think if Tubbs were to face Walker, he wouldn't change his style much. He would fight like he did in the Bowe fight, trying to be efficient with footwork and using a his quick jab to score. I think if he tries getting too aggressive with wider punches, he'll get countered by the faster Walker. And he doesn't have the power to bully Walker.
     
  9. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Yes, I see two different styles. And two different fighters, with different raw abilities.
     
  10. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    It is not enough for an assumption to be logical or plausible.

    You need evidence to back it up!
     
  11. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Every time you repeat this dribble, Ray Arcel rotates in his grave by one degree.
     
  12. janitor

    janitor VIP Member Full Member

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    There is a significant flaw in your reasoning here.

    You base your interpretation of technique in Corbett’s era on the Corbett Fitzsimmons fight, because they were clearly two of the better fighters of that era.

    The problem is that while they were two of the best of the era, neither of them was particularly orthodox by the standards of the era.

    It would arguably be like assessing the technique of the 90s based on Roy Jones, or assessing the technique of today based on David Haye or Carl Froch.
     
  13. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Yeah, me too. But technique and strategy wise, do you see the huge fundamental difference? Do you notice how Douglas is actually fighting like a big man? Using his mobility, reach, and jab to keep Tyson at the end of his punches? Whereas Loughran more often jabs while coming in (the way smaller opponents fight today)? Subtle, but the spread of this approach is a very important advance in boxing technique and strategy. A modern boxer with Loughran's physical advantages and abilities would get cursed out in his corner every round for unnecessarily coming into Walker's punching range so often.
     
  14. reznick

    reznick In the 7.2% Full Member

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    Exactly
     
  15. mrkoolkevin

    mrkoolkevin Never wrestle with pigs or argue with fools Full Member

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    Why on earth would Tony Tubbs fight Mickey Walker like he fought Rid**** Bowe? :patsch You don't seem to appreciate the logic of boxing well enough to understand why some approaches and techniques are better than others.

    If the only difference you see between Loughran and Tubbs is that Loughran shifts his feet more quickly, I really don't know what to say. You don't see the fundamental differences in how they deliver their punches and combinations? You think that Tubbs would constantly find himself in clinches with Walker or with his head in Walker's punching range? You don't see him throwing more and sharper double jabs and combinations from outside?