Which of these does Usyk beat

Cruiserweight is not heavyweight no matter how you try to word it.

 

How would you feel about Liston's chances? I think Liston has the ring IQ to wear Usyk down, and stop him late.

 

None of the above. We haven't seen Usyk against a great puncher (well, one that could land a flush shot). So he's untested there.

I can't see him beating Holmes or Ali, either. I need to see at least a couple more fights.

He is DAMN good, that I'm first to admit.

 

Respectfully you’re saying fighters over 200lbs aren’t heavyweights? That doesn’t make sense.
Usyk before going up had a full career against fighters who would be heavyweights from day one of the Queensbury Rules to at minimum 1979 at 190lbs but more likely 2005 when it became 200lbs with next day weigh in rules. So Usyk was competing with boxers whom can rehydrate 10-20lbs after standing on the scales at 200lbs but they aren’t heavyweights?

 

None of the above

 

Imagine if this forum was around when Ali beat Foreman...........or Duran beat SRL....or Barkley....or even when Spinks beat Qawi.

 

I always find questions framed like this odd. Usyk is a calibre of fighter that is capable of beating all of them. So he COULD beat all of them if they fought multiple times.

But if Usyk is hypothetically only able to fight them once with no rematches, and it's a matter of who I'd favour him over then it'd be Louis and Foreman. Wlad, Tyson and Frazier are 50/50. Lewis and Ali I'd definitely take over him. Don't know enough about Holmes or Liston.

Despite the fact he was only 6'1 and 200lbs or so Louis had a size advantage over most of his opponents. That and he struggled (relatively) with movers, and was susceptible to left hands. So the 6'3, 205lbs-212lbs ATG aggressive boxing Southpaw in Usyk would be a horrible match-up for him, especially if they can only fight once.

Foreman I think is spectacularly overrated H2H because like I said before people combine the best version of young and old Foreman to make a H2H match-up that never existed. That and people overrate his power. Foreman very rarely, cleanly, KTFO of people. Frazier got back up like 6 times, and Frazier doesn't even have an ATG chin, yet Foreman is credited with Shavers-Wilder like power in matchups and apparently one bombs everyone. Nah. Usyk dances around him until Foreman exhausts himself then he ramps up the aggression for the rest of the fight to a decision.

Height, + a good jab and good movement seemed to trouble Tyson a lot. Like A LOT, so much so that he lost multiple rounds to Tony Tucker until he broke his hand, and he still couldn't get him out of there. Usyk is a combination of skill, discipline, mental toughness, stamina and most importantly, an extremely underrated chin. 35 year old Usyk took a flush uppercut from AJ in the late rounds of their fight and was perfectly fine. Also took some big shots from a prime Briedis, a man who recently broke the reigning Cruiserweight champions jaw whilst being 38 years of age, and followed it up by shattering his nose again just last week. So Tyson isn't one bombing him out of there anytime soon. He gets out-boxed and outboxed.
BUT, Usyk never encountered speed and power like Tyson's and imo he's an ATG body puncher, which could change things.
BUT, it also couldn't? I feel like it's become a bit of a myth Usyk's body. It's been shown that outside of him getting knocked down in the amateurs over a decade ago, the only time he was downed by a body shot was when it hit him in the dick, and even then that was once out of the combined dozen low blows Dubois and Fury threw, so I'm not sure if body blows are as much of a kryptonite as people think. So I'm honestly not sure how this goes.

Wlad without the ability to clinch endlessly has to expel a lot more energy to keep Usyk at bay, combined with Usyk's own footwork would make landed his jabs while backing up much more difficult. A body attack like Fury did would be a great way of equalising their difference in stamina and potential work rate but he didn't really do that very much. Though, Wlad had VERY fast hands in his prime which a lot of people don't know because he peaked in popularity in his late thirties, so he'd hit Usyk with some big shots. But I don't think Usyk would get knocked out, and I don't think Klitschko would pull the trigger. But it comes down to the ref for this. If in Germany Klitschko, Ukraine Usyk.

I rewatched Frazier v Ali yesterday and was surprised that people use that as a testament to his BOXING ability as opposed to his FIGHTING ability. Ali's movement was non-existent in this fight compared to his prime. He basically just stood still until Frazier walked towards him and punched him in the face with his hands held low, or would step backwards and flurry before letting Frazier punch him in the face and start clinching, and Frazier still eaked out the win. Frazier's stamina is better than Usyk's, he's more powerful and has a good body attack, but there's a MASSIVE skill gap between them, and it's not like Frazier is an elite power puncher or has a size advantage to work with. He's also extraordinarily on dimensional.
BUT he does have absolutely incredible head movement, and I think he'd be harder to hit than anyone Usyk could fight, Tyson included. So that alone, + the fact it'd likely necessitate Usyk fighting at a closer range than he's usually comfortable with could tip the scales in his favour.

Ali, and Lennox should be clearly favoured over him I think. Ali is too athletic for Usyk quite simply. Just as mentally tough with better stamina, better reflexes, better chin, better power. Even if he's less technically sound he more than makes up for it with his measurables.

I think Lewis is also too much physically for Usyk. AJ didn't have the skill or endurance to use his power and size effectively against Usyk, and Fury didn't have the power, endurance or chin to use his skills and size effectively over 12 rounds. Lewis doesn't have these problems.

Also why are some people using a NON prime 34 year old Usyk in these matchups? Prime Usyk already fought 210lbs+ opponents while himself having a ring weight of around 210lbs. You don't need to use the age of Usyk that competed at the arbitrary threshold of "Heavyweight" just to match him up against heavyweights. This makes even less sense because people him were matching him up with Heavyweights historically back in 2018 before he even moved up lol, so we've regressed somehow. That would also any heavyweight prior to the 40's from these matchups.

 

Wlad is Usyk's most likely win opportunity here, but the odds are against it, IMO.

 

Do you have a single take that isn't an L?

 

Again cruiserweight is not heavyweight which is an entirely different ball game hence why they have a weight class.

 

You got it right, Mag.
He beat decent fighter s for his belts but most of those listed are way above Fury and AJ.

 

I was alive and saw all of those fighters fight live. What's your point? Uysk is still a very special fighter just like Ali, Duran and Spinks.

 

My point is everything fluctuates so much on a single fight nowadays........many are in way too much of a hurry to anoint greatness, actually make that levels of greatness and H2H prowess.

It's probably a product of the world we live in today.....everything at our fingertips and so much done in a hurry....so busy etc.

There's a reason why most astute observers show a certain level of patience. Many are loathe to categorize and hem in boxers too soon.

Hear me out.

When Joshua was rolling along there was a lot of threads, him vs X,Y, Z and the rest. Some had him going too well, some not too well. Then he loses to Ruiz. All of a sudden for a great many he was JUNK. Ruiz was suddenly this and that and knocking out Joe Louis and co and all sorts of feats. Joshua was jumped on way too soon as he came straight back to beat Ruiz handily. Ruiz went down a mile in the blink of an eye. Rigid judgments were made way too fast by a significant amount of people. Joshua lost to Usyk and took another pretty big hit then he lost again but that was a bit murky as he did ok but on the whole he was sold off quite a bit.

A while back Crawford had a big win and it was like he had half a dozen of them.

Which leads me to Usyk. Usyk being a great at this point isn't in question, it's just levels and also H2H, like this thread, is still open especially given the way people change their minds on single fights in here.

If Fury comes back and beats Usyk impressively, which isn't exactly impossible everything will be in a spin again. There would be all sorts of explanations why Fury lost the first fight by many people and some would suddenly slap Usyk way back down. Trouble is then we have a rubber fight LOL

Joshua at this point is building himself back up quite nicely in the eyes of many......with much of it to do with KO'ing a non boxer but one whom ran fury close for some godforsaken reason.

So i hope my overall point come across. I'll also concede it goes multiple ways as some classicists want to "rush" to write modern fighters off to protect the sanctity of our childhood heroes. As soon as someone loses BOOM they are crap they were crap all along etc etc.

So that's it in a giant nutshell.

Usyk is special but he doesn't rate as high as Ali and Duran for me at this point.

 

You're just hating, man. Usyk is the P4P GOAT and Lomachenko would win every round against Sugar Ray Robinson, the General forum told me so.

 

Yeah i'm deffo swimming against the tide!!!!