Which one of these past champions would have the hardest time today?

Well put. :thumbsup

 

Joe Frazier would be screwed today.... At a solid 209 to 215 pounds, he'd be weak if he got down to 200 pounds, and he's too short with a short reach to hang in there with the hulking heavies of today.... Frazier would be a fighter without a division to compete comfortably at...

Rocky Marciano would be fine as a Cruiserweight; not at heavyweight....

Jack Johnson at 6' 2" tall and 210 to 217 pounds is around the size of Evander Holyfield... Jack Johnson could do whatever a youthful Holyfield could do...

MR.BILL:deal

 

Because Frazier had problems in his own time with large heavies like Ramos and Buger, and the 6'3 Ali...

Oh wait!

 

Both Walcott and Charles- two guys more scientific than anyone on the current scene- both claimed he was hard to hit squarely. He did cut and bruise easy. Marciano used his small size to his advantage. He presented a very small target that cost a very deep price to reach.

 

Holy was as dirty as any champ ever. So was Holmes. Marciano had nothing over these guys in that department. If you are thinking a champ, especially an ages champ, won't do anything to swing a fight his way, you are understudied.

 

And they were subtle about it.

It's easy to hit someone with a thumb, when you smash their head nearly off their shoulders with a blatant elbow it's a wee bit different.

 

Larry Holmes was not a dirty fighter.... Holmes was a master boxer / puncher..... This crap about Holmes always thumbing a dude is bull****---to a degree.... Larry Holmes was a master with his left jab.... Holmes also like to wear those Everlast gloves that had huge thumb pockets.... You take a master jabber with Everlast gloves on, and the opponent will get thumbed off and on..... It'll happen..... The old Everlast gloves were notorious for huge thumb pockets....

MR.BILL

 

For me, Marciano (and I'm a big fan)

Johnson's style is primitive yes, but I'm assuming that all three fighters can adapt to modern conditions and styles, right?
Johnson has the most to work with then. I'd imagine you give him 6 months to learn modern boxing and he'd be there or thereabouts.
He could adapt.
The other two, based on their size and styles mainly, are quite limted with their options.
Frazier though, is bigger than Rocky and he fought heavyweights that were bigger and more the modern type of heavyweight than Rocky did.

I just can't see Rocky being competitive with giants like the Klitschko's at all.

 

Dude,

Marciano would be a 190 to 200 pound Cruiserweight today..... Marciano would NOT fight the "K" brothers or Nick Valuev..... Rocky Marciano would easily handle and hang with the 190 to 200 pounders..... Rocky Marciano would be a mere Cruiserweight today....:yep

MR.BILL

 

Sure, but for the purposes of the thread I chose to play along.

He's dominate the cruisers obviously, although I think Haye (while his chin lasts) could make things exciting.

 

LOL, what a surprise, in your view everything from the past is superior and the present/future just sucks.

How did those superman from the past ever lose a fight ?

Lets see, Johnson was the big dude in his time with ,for the time period , skills fighting skinny middleweights straight out of the soup kitchen and what a surprise, lol, a good big man beats a good small men, especially if the are middleweights.............he even did himself a favor and got axed cold by a middleweight, wait, I forgot, back then middleweights were murderous punchers who would kill a rhino with one blow. Later on Liston was the new big guy with skills on the block, Ali, Foreman etc etc , you are getting my drift ? See above.

For the guy who thinks that Johnson would exccel with a modern management team. OK, that guy could not leave his zipper closed back then when temptations were few and far in between, put this guy into todays Vegas or LA and he is a walking disaster waiting to happen.

Marciano , great guy, lots of heart/will which covered up his mediocre talent and at one time I had all the tapes of his boxing show in the sixties , but come on, he gets knocked down against a aging almost yourneyman level Walcott and has to come from behind, again what a surprise ,a younger guy has more in the tank as the rounds go on ,to win him the title. For example, Tyson bounced Berbick silly in his title debut and had Larry who was ten times the fighter Walcott ever was , counting stars when Larry actually decided to fight and not survive.

Frazier is 1-4 in his career defining fights, on more time 1-4, tko'ed in one and bounced around like a bowling ball in his other KO losses. I can not think of another elite level heavyweight who was so absolutly man handled by a decent big guy, this was like a adult whooping a child, but , yeah , to day he would kill 'em all, in your dreams.

Bottom line, straight out of a time machine all of them get laid out hard once the fight the upper level of the current Heavyweights. Marciano and Frazier certainly would rule the cruiser/lthwt division and good ol' johnson would be bewildered that he would have to fight full sized skilled Heavyweights instead of the Pavliks of this world.

 

It all depends on what version of these past greats we are thinking of.

If it is "as they were" then:

Obviously Jack Johnson's style would be outdated. But I still think he could cause a few problems. He had the best size and build of the three and had plenty of ring savvy.

Marciano, in spite of his power, stamina, heart and intensity, would be too small.

Joe Frazier, with more or less all of Marciano's above named qualities, might just hang in around on equal terms with the best of the moderns.

Now, as I have always believed and asserted should be the case, if we surmise how they would be with access to all modern advances then:

Johnson had an incredible physique and was obviously very strong. He also had great athleticism and was a 'brainy' boxer. He had the most adaptable style. With exposure to today's methods, Johnson would clean house and be the undisputed champion.

Marciano, would be bigger and stronger. But he would still have a size handicap. He would fight in the same style. It would be win some, lose some for him.

Frazier, too would be a bit heavier and stronger than he was though the size gains wouldn't be the same as Marciano's. But he would still be heavier than Rocky. In his case too, I feel that it would be win some, lose some. Ok, maybe win most but lose a few.

 

What other champions had to fight Foreman and Ali 5 times, 4 of which they were past their best themselves, and two of which is the worst possible stylistic matchup?

 

Marciano, I think.