Which one of these past champions would have the hardest time today?

Yeah, the kneejerk reaction here is plain ignorance.
Btw, Sonny Liston suxxorz! 0-2 Ali! :tired

 

Did they?



Norton and Young were in their prime, in fact at their PEAK for all of their fights against Ali and Foreman.

In a bit more detail:

Norton did not do any better than Frazier against Foreman. He got demolished and would've gotten demolished just as easily if they had a rematch like Frazier did. He very closely beat an out of shape and undertrained Ali in their first fight, then lost a close decision in the rematch. Frazier clearly beat a very good version of Ali in their first fight and lost a close decision in the rematch. The only fight where Norton has the edge over Frazier is their third fight, but again, Norton was at his peak whereas Frazier was close to being done, and Norton had a near-shot version of Ali in front of him (thanks to Frazier).

In the end, Norton's record vs Foreman and Ali is 1-3.


As for Young, he beat Foreman fair and square. No argument there. He beat Ali also on my scorecard, but again, this was a near shot version of Ali while being in his prime himself. Not really a fair comparison.

 

Yeah, and Jeffries is 0-1 against the only real heavyweight he faced (Johnson), Dempsey is 1-2 against his best opposition in Sharkey and Tunney, a lightheavyweight, and had to foul to beat Sharkey when behind on points, Tyson is 0-3 against Holyfield and Lewis, etc. :dead

The only thing bringing an argument like that shows is that one dislikes the fighter in question. And i don't mind that, but then be honest about it instead of re-wrapping and manipulating statistics to match your agenda, while not upholding other fighters to this same, unfair standard.

 

I am afraid I have to disagree with Chris on this one point. Norton did do marginally better against Foreman than Frazier did. I am talking about Fight 1 in both cases.

Norton adopted a rather weird stance and held up well for most part of the first round but went to pieces in the 2nd. Frazier was overwhelmed almost from the very beginning.

Also, if I remember correctly, Frazier went down a total of 5 times while Norton went down 'only' thrice.

Moreover, Foreman went in and just tore apart poor Joe while he seemed to be more circumspect with Norton - at least in the first round.

 

I thoroughly agree with every point made here except... that Marciano had mediocre talent. He had tremendous talent for boxing. You can not teach that type of power or that stamina. Those were traits he was blessed with, ergo talent. Also, he was very clever and cute with his defense. Again, I would judge he and Frazier as cruisers rather than against today's HW's. Otherwise, your points are spot on.

 

There's no doubt in my mind that Frazier would beat for example Valuev badly. The same with the version of Peter that Vitaly beat. These men are big, but not big punchers.

 

Norton was down only three times to Frazier's six because Frazier kept getting up - Norton was demolished after the 3rd knockdown.

Okay, Norton did better in the sense that he won the first round, but at the end, both were crushed like ants under an army boot before the end of the 2nd round. You say "marginally" better, and i guess you're right there, but to me it's not really relevant. Both were pretty much blown away, even if Norton won the first and Frazier had a 10 6 round there. I would say Norton did "irrelevantly" better. :yep

 

Do you REALLY believe Norton hurt Ali more than Frazier did? Norton gave him a tough stylistic matchup and broke his jaw, but other than that, it was mostly a boxing match.

Frazier made it a FIGHT, knocked down Ali, had him out on his feet in the 11th, and basically made him go through a hellicious body beating everytime they fought. Ali wanted to quit after the 10th in Manilla and said it was the closest thing to dying. He never made any remarks every remotely close to that about the Norton fights. After the first fight it looked like he was hiding an apple in his right cheek, it was that bad swollen... and Ali is not the guy to swell or bruise quickly.

Yes, Young did better vs Ali and Foreman.

Does that mean we should erase and forget the fact that Frazier cleaned the house and dominated the heavyweight division as good as anyone ever did in history (including a win over Ali), between '66 and '72?

Young was at his peak when he fought Ali and Foreman, Frazier wasn't. Accept it.

 

I agree completely.

The Klitschko brothers aside, who are all these fearsome heavyweights that would kill Frazier and Johnson?
Only a fool would bet against Frazier against anyone outside of the Klitschkos. Maybe Valuev owing to his immense size could win on points, but who else?
(And it's not cemented in stone that even the Klits could beat Frazier. It's possible yes, maybe even probable, but this is a sport where conventional wisdom is often proved a mockery.)

I also stand by my claim that if given time to learn modern techniques, Johnson would make a bloody fool out of most of today's fighters. Even as it stands, even with his primitive style, I'd bet against him only against a small crop of heavyweights, hand on heart.

I keep hearing how modern and scientific the current crop are, but when I see those bulging waistlines and boxing trunks that look more like curtains than anything, I'm left wondering where all these digital age fighters are.
The Klits I'll give you, but most of the others? Puhleeeze.

 

Marciano would be fighting in a cruiserweight and he'd do pretty well.

Frazier would propably hold one of the titles and win 1 out of 3 against Wlad.

Johnson would have difficulties, his style is prehistoric.