Which performance would enhance Calzaghe's legacy more - please vote!

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by Decebal, Feb 27, 2008.


  1. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    This is a hypothetical question...assuming that it would happen...
     
  2. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I don't see how Lacy's or Kessler's performance in future fights has any bearing on Calzaghe's performance against Kessler.
     
  3. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    You rate Joe's performance against Kessler as Calzaghe's best ever. But Lacy never touched Calzaghe over 12 rounds, how can it be better?
     
  4. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    It's better because Lacy was made for Calzaghe and wasn't aywhere close to being as good as Kessler. Calzaghe didn't look as good but that's because the fight was much harder; doesn't mean his performance was not better. Joe himself refers to it as his best fight. It's the one he's by far the proudest of. I think it's for good reason.
     
  5. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    Yes, and it was. But what I'm getting at is that your legacy is determined by the fighters you fight, their standing in the sport and how you beat them. The fighters Calzaghe has fought are mostly good fighters but the likes of Kessler so far, haven't been able to beat a fighter in anyone's top 30 (at best) p4p list. When he does, Joe's legacy improves with it.
     
  6. untmike

    untmike ABN Full Member

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    Oh lol my bad bro. Yea i think if he beat hopkins it would definately enhance his legacy. Hopkins may be 43 but is still one of the best out there today. I think it would be better than the kessler win. Even tho kessler is also one of the best out there today, he hasnt really gotten that big of a name yet so a win over him at the time was good, but not great. A win over hopkins would be tremendous. Look wat wins over hopkins did for taylor. Now put in a win over hopkins for calzaghe with the legacy that he already has.
     
  7. ocelot

    ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    In the Kessler fight Calzaghe demonstrated how he can adapt his style, and impose his style, on very good fighters. I thought he was facing a very long night - and a loss- after round four. It's amazing that he was able to turn the fight completely around and dominate after the big uppercuts he took early on.
    But, unless Kessler goes on to become the fighter at 168 -175, the Hopkins fight will be more important for Calzaghe's legacy. Hopkins is still a top pfp fighter and one of the best of his era. He's not the fighter he once was, but not shot by a long stretch. A dominant performance by Calzaghe would speak volumes about his talent.
     
  8. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    I don't think it affects Calzaghe's legacy at all.

    Say Kessler gives an equally good performance showing the same qualities as against Calzaghe but no better or worse against Bute and wins by 4 rounds. Even if you assume that this "proves" Calzaghe would have beaten Bute (allowing for "styles make fights"), it doesn't make Calzaghe's victory over Kessler more significant. If that were not the case, and I have used this argument before, we'd all know who Esteban de Jesus was.

    Only thing that looks better is Calzaghe's resume..."Look! He beat the guy who beat Bute - who later became unified Champion at 175...etc. He must have been good!"...but not his legacy, since resume and legacy are different things: resume is all about names, legacy is about the performance of those names on the night.

    Also, who says Kessler can not improve considerably on the back of this defeat, or alternatively, to be broken mentally - so what he does next may shed little light to no light on Calzaghe's greatness.
     
  9. walk with me

    walk with me Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    you damn right... nobody in the usa cares about calzaghe beating some fighter most americans havent heard of....

    and if he beats hopkins... hopkins was 40+ years old so hes over the hump.... nobody cares about lacy or eubank in america either because there not known.....
     
  10. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Only way Calzaghe can perform even better than against Kessler is if he not only completely dominates and stops Hopkins, but if he outsmarts him tactically, neutralising Hopkins' counter-game.

    Big ask, since Hopkins is one of the best 20 odd fighters in the world, for me...very big ask...but then, his performance against Kessler was amazing!:deal
     
  11. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    Nobody has to tell me what Joe Calzaghe's legacy is or justify his wins/career to me. A legacy is purely for people in many years time to look back on. People like us now, looking back at Duran or SRR and analysing their wins. The word legacy should be abolished while a boxer is still active.

    There are very few boxing fans who know enough to determine anyone's proper legacy. Since most boxer's legacy is determined by the media further down the line, it helps a great deal if Kessler goes on to be successful. Joe got caught a few times in the Kessler fight. If Jermain Taylor moves up and dominates Kessler in a 6 months time without getting hit, you're saying that Calzaghe's performance will still be valued the same as it is now? I don't think so.
     
  12. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    It depends whether Kessler puts in a good performance or not. If he puts in an equally good performance and by some miracle Taylor lacies him, it doesn't mean that Calzaghe wasn't as good as we thought; it means Taylor's become much better than we thought he was, overnight!
     
  13. PrideOfWales

    PrideOfWales Winston Zedmore Full Member

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    As you have previously stated, Kessler was in your top 20 before fighting Joe so the levels are similar. Given that MK improved in your ratings that night, that should mean the threat from Hopkins is lower. So it should mean Joe will exceed your expectations if your p4p rankings are accurate!
     
  14. ocelot

    ocelot Boxing Junkie Full Member

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    Uh, I'm American and I knew of Kessler and thought he was a great fighter before the Calzaghe fight (and he might still be a great fighter; time will tell). But, you are correct in that Americans are forced to seek out fighters like Kessler (a thank you to those fans who upload fights to youtube) because the fights are not broadcast in the US. A big win by Calzaghe could change this, as European fighters will have to be looked at differently. But if he loses, everyone in the US will just laugh about how deluded European fans are and that they can't compete with US talent. Hatton did a lot to reinforce this belief.
     
  15. Decebal

    Decebal Lucian Bute Full Member

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    Yeah...if my rating are correct, Kessler will have provided more of a challenge than Hopkins. I had Kessler at 17-18 or so...p4p; I have Hopkins at 24-25 or so...so, if Joe has not become worse in the meantime and gives it his best again, he should look more impressive than he looked against Kessler. We'll see.:good