Which Three Lightweights Have Best Chance With Duran

Meh; even if that's what he meant, I wonder how deeply he'd want to delve into Duran's competition, and how well HE would be able to deal with what Whitaker had in store for HIM.

 

I don't agree with a lot of this..

 

Fights are often not won on what you can see (speed, power etc.) but sometimes on the 'little' things...timing, getting off first, implementing the gameplan, frustrating an opponent etc.

Yeah, I can see Pernell being a good choice against Duran. Why not? He was sharp, awkward, elusive, intelligent and also tougher than he's often given credit for.

Chavez may have a shot, though I'd make Duran a favourite. But Chavez could hold his own against virtually anybody at 130, even a rough customer like Duran.

I'd like to make some unorthodox choice...someone from left field...but I don't know who really.

 

Even if you don't agree with a lot of it... It's still more than his claim that Whitaker is only better and slipping and pivoting.. which was my point.

How on earth though could you say Duran had the better jab... Whitaker had an all time great jab at LW... you could never say the same about Duran... You believe Duran had the better jab?

 

Whitaker
Mosely ( people forget what an amazing lightweight he was )
Armstrong

 

Duran wasn't as reliant on his jab. Offensively, he was much better balanced and potent. But his jab was damn good. It wasn't a potshot jab but a probing jab, an unbalancing jab, that set up the rest of his offense. And that's what Duran wanted. He had more in his offensive toolbox than Whitaker. His jab opened up that toolbox.

Watch DeJesus II or III.

 

I understand you fine.

Thanks for the response. We disagree on who is better. Happens all the time to me. I am a jerk.

When we talk upperbody movement...I keep seeing Duran slip jabs and countering with a right cross, which swelled Haglers eye, buzzed Leonard, dropped Moore and Palomino, etc, and then duck under hooks at the same time hitting to the body. This usually happens in one exchange. I pointed out the 61 KO's at LW because his threw more right hands than Pea and hurt more people with it. He was more effective with it. How many time did Buchannan look like he was ready to go when Duran landed just one right?

Radar? nah..Duran slipped and countered prime Hagler and Leonard. Ring General? Duran forces everyone to fight his fight. It normally looks like Duran in the middle of the ring stalking his opponent. Jab? Pernell's is pretty but, Duran set up his wide array of punches. He jab and slipped and got inside. Or he countered and slipped and got inside. Pernell controlled the pace with his jab and he had a nice counter left hand that landed plenty but had no effect on top fighters. Prime Duran is not 147 Chavez. 135 Chavez is not 147 Chavez. There is no comparision, however Buchannan and DeJesus compare well to Pernell...not to mention Sugar Ray Leonard. Pernell had great defense and he got hit less but this was because he was not interested in punching as much as not getting hit. Duran wanted to KO his opponent so he put himself in harms way. The one time he purely boxed he was untouchable.

Wide variety of styles? How many guy did Pea fight that were faster than him? Anyone even close? He feasted off of come forward sluggers. All of his best wins are fighters of this mold. Duran fought bangers (DeJesus) and cuties (Buchannan). I could name more at LW if you need. Higher weights he faced Hearn, Benitez, Hagler, Leonard, Cuevas, Palomino, Barkely...the list goes on.

Whitaker in my mind was faster foot and hand and he blocked punches great. That is about it. If he were faced with Duran at LW he would not be able to enjoy any of those gifts given him. He would be on the run hoping to land jabs and keep enough distance between him and Duran to get a decision. I cannot see that.

 

I agree with most of what you say buddy... but that doesn't change the fact that Pernell had an ATG jab at LW.. while Duran did not. Just because something opens up other things in your arsenal doesn't mean it's better than another boxer who jab is just plain better. Pernell DOMINATED fights with jab alone... that should tell us who has the better jab.

 

You're more talking head movement with your response... I do agree that head movement goes to Duran... but no way can upper body movement.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rw1t2yAK_wU

This video illustrates just that.. Duran had good defense as well and good head and upper body movement.. it just wasn't as good as Pea's

Duran didn't throw more right crosses than Pea threw left crosses.. The left cross was a key component of his arsenal along with his jab... Duran did hurt more people than Pea with it, but again, they were both means to an end. Pea controlled more fights with his left cross than Duran did with his right cross.. that makes pea the obvious choice for me.

There is literally NO WAY one could say Duran had the better jab than Pea. As I mentioned before, Pea literally DOMINATED fights with his jab alone. We're not talking about scrubs we're talking about he best fighters he faced were all controlled by Pea's jab and convincingly so. Just watch the Nelson, Ramirez 1 and 2, Hoya.. Chavez etc etc. Name me a fight that Duran dominated with his jab alone like whitaker has.. you won't be able to which shows whitaker had the better jab.

Duran had a solid radar.. just wasn't as good as Pea's.. not really sure how you can argue the point. Same with being a ring general.. Duran was good at it.. Pea was a master at it. I keep thinking that this is the point that you're missing. Nobody is saying Duran wasn't a good general or didn't have a good Radar.. it just wasn't as good as Pea's. Duran was controlled by El Radar and SRL 2 and didn't fight his fight. He was made to quit because he could stop the other guy from fighting his fight. So how on God's green earth you can say he is a better ring general is kinda beyond me. Pea was NEVER EVER made to not fight his fight.. Duran was.

Same thing with Style... Bennitez and other movers did give Duran some trouble... there wasnt' a style that gave Pernell trouble in the same way. Goes back to.. Duran was very good at thing.. Pea was better

Your argument for defense makes no sense at all.. Duran put himself in harms way more thus he got hit more... but he still has better defense. Ummm okay.... That's like me saying well Green bay gave up the 3rd most points in the NFL.. but that's because they blitzed so much and put themselves out there to get T.O. Ummm it's what it's.. Duran got his more, PERIOD, thus he doesn't have a better defense. What's if and could've been's dont' matter here.

You listed fighters that beat him.. Wilfred.. Dejesus.. Hagler SRL etc etc.. So i'm not sure how losing to those fighters means he's better against more style.. in fact it proves the exact opposite. That's why I'm so confused why this is so hard to get. Pea dominated the best fighters he faced and the ATG fighters he faced.. Duran, you can't say the same. Don't get me wrong Duran is great and the better LW in an All time sense.. but Whitaker has his number in many areas and imo it really can't be debated.

 

I don't remember Pernell fighting his fight or dominating with the jab against Trinidad.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F5Pw2elzBikStart Start at 7.17. This a quick video for Duran.

Duran did not bother with trying to slip every punch that his opponent threw to embarass them like Pernel. Duran slipped an looked immediately to deliver pain as payment for the of missing him. I think I would rather face the guy who is trying to duck all of my punches rather than the guy who is trying to counter all of my misses.

In this little flick, Duran is in with a variety of styles. I mentioned Hagler and the rest because he even though he did not beat these men, he still performed at a high level. Yes he was crushed by Hearns, yet Hearns was crushed by Hagler and Duran fought Hagler on near even terms. He gave Leonard a war in the first fight and in the second Leonard stayed as far away from him as possible. Duran quit more than likely because Leonard was showboating and running. But even still the fight was close.

Lets put Pernell in against Leonard, Hearns, Hagler, and Benitez, way after his prime and see if he come out with a world title. See if he controls the fight with his jab.

Pernell had is masterpieces but they were nowhere near the level of Durans competition at 135. And if we go to higher weight it is the same even more so.

 

I just don't even know what to say... The most obvious points you don't seem to get or concede so I don't know what more I can say. You seem to just being coming back with excuses and holding your hands over your ears going nah uh.

Name me the fights duran DOMINATED with his jab. I asked this question and I got no response. Pea literally controlled and dominated fights with his jab.. numerous times. This should clearly illustrate that Pea had the superior jab. Yet, you still don't concede the point, which is why I'm kinda at a loss here. Same with defense.. you go yeah he got hit more but he also put himself in position to get hit more to fire back. Ummm SO? He still got hit more Period, end of story. Pea had the superior defense and got hit less. It's really that simple. Same with ring generalship.. I can name fights Duran didn't control the fight and was beaten clearly or made to quit... You can't name one for Pea. The ATG's Duran faced he wasn't able to dictate the fight all the time or even most of the time. With Pea the atg's he faced he controlled almost all of them. I mean really 1 + 1 = 2 but I guess we're just not on the same page here.

 

Duran had much more in his arsenal than a jab. There was no reason for him to have to dominate a fight with his jab. The jab opened his full pallet of offensive weapons.

In that sense, Whitaker proved he could rely on his jab, while Duran never had to prove this.

 

So pea had the superior jab?

 

We'll never know, since Duran's other means were too good to exclude in favor of primarily jabbing.