Which was the more impressive run: Liston 1958-1963 or Tyson 1986-1988?

Discussion in 'Classic Boxing Forum' started by Bokaj, Aug 9, 2008.


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  1. guilalah

    guilalah Well-Known Member Full Member

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    Good post , McGrain!
     
    guilalah, Mar 5, 2009
    guilalah, Mar 5, 2009
    #16
  2. road_warrior_99

    road_warrior_99 Member Full Member

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    Would have given it to Tyson, but saw the full fight of how James "Quick" Tillis thoroughly frustrated Tyson in many rounds of that fight and have to extrapolate that Cassius Clay (at the time) would have demolished Tyson as he did Liston. So looking at the quality of Opponents I would have to say Liston.
     
    road_warrior_99, Mar 5, 2009
    road_warrior_99, Mar 5, 2009
    #17
  3. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    And Ali was beaten by two men that Foreman both slaughtered in two rounds, but as we saw that didn't mean that he was the better man in a fight.
     
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    #18
  4. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Sure, it's not be all and end all. But it's a stronger case (or at least as strong) than Witherspoon losing to Smith losing to Tyson (by decision). Anyhow, Witherspoon seems to me at least as big a challenge for Tyson as Ingo for Liston.

    As I see it they both beat anyone that mattered during these respective periods, with one exception. Ingo in Liston's case and Witherspoon in Tyson's.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    #19
  5. My dinner with Conteh

    My dinner with Conteh Tending Bepi Ros' grave again Full Member

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    Good question. I'd go with Liston, as most of these wins were during his life as a contender, rather than as a champ like Tyson (in which a fighter should take on the best on offer).
     
    My dinner with Conteh, Mar 6, 2009
    My dinner with Conteh, Mar 6, 2009
    #20
  6. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Tyson also knocked out Thomas who beat and Witherspoon, Larry Holmes who also beat Witherspoon. Terrible Tim just got knocked out in 1 round by a semi-journeyman as Tyson started his period of dominance, and he was never a factor nor mentioned as possible Tyson opponent. Ingo was at the top of the division, THE champion during Liston's period and also knocked out the man who beat him (Patterson) and beat Machen much easier than Liston did, whereas Witherspoon never beat any of the three men that had bested him and all of whom lost to Tyson. Big difference.
     
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    #21
  7. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    You have a point (even though Spoon lost to a better version of Holmes - which of course also was very close). But Witherspoon had at least as big a claim to really belong amongst the best I would say. Ingo's claim to fame is primarily two fights and he was a force for about 3-4 years, whereas Witherspoon stayed near the top for almost a decade.

    Anyhow, I just don't feel too much separates them. Sure, if you think Ingo was the somewhat bigger omission, that's fine, but I don't think there's that much daylight between.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    #22
  8. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    And Witherspoon beat Tillis much easier than Tyson did.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    #23
  9. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    The fact that Witherspoon wasn't even mentioned during Tyson's reign, whereas Ingo was THE top guy outside of Patterson during Liston's time, does not give you a hint ?
     
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    #24
  10. MAG1965

    MAG1965 Loyal Member banned

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    I like the Tyson run more. Liston beat a lot of guys who were smaller than him in weight. Tyson's opponents were bigger in comparison to Mike.
     
    MAG1965, Mar 6, 2009
    MAG1965, Mar 6, 2009
    #25
  11. Bokaj

    Bokaj Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

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    Ingo was the top guy from 1958-1960. That's not even half of the mentioned period. He had two good wins during these years. Spinks was the lineal and undisputed champ for a while, with one really good win, that doesn't mean I think his name would have been a bad omission from Holmes's resume.

    What matters to me is how big a threat the mentioned fighters could reasonable have posed. And even though Ingo had a better spell 1958-1960 tha Witherspoon ever had, I don't think he necissarily would have posed a bigger threat to Liston in 1958-1963 than Witherspoon would have done to Tyson in 1986-1988. My reason for thinking this is that Witherspoon for several years had competed against top opposition (as late as 1986 he had victories against Bruno and Tubbs, and he would beat Williams 5 years later), while Ingo's legacy mainly rests on 2 fights.

    In short: Did Ingo have a better two years in 1958 and 1959 than Witherspoon ever had? Yes, of course. Would he have been a bigger threat to Liston in 1958-1963 than Witherspoon would have been to Tyson in 1986-1988? Not necissarily. Anf if so, certainly not by much. At his peak (before the rematch with Patterson) Ingo had two very convincing victories over Machen and Patterson. Witherspoon, before his rematch with Smith in late 1986, had victories over Snipes, Tillis, Smith, Page, Tubbs and Bruno as well as a close, hard fought loss to champion Holmes.

    L. Spinks was champion and Shavers never was, but that doesn't mean that Holmes's victory over Spinks is more impressive to me than his victories over Shavers.
     
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    Bokaj, Mar 6, 2009
    #26
  12. Arka

    Arka New Member Full Member

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    Hmmm....:think
     
    Arka, Mar 6, 2009
    Arka, Mar 6, 2009
    #27
  13. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    You have and continue to fail to address the fact that Ingo was a top player, for a while THE top player, during Liston's time, whereas Witherspoon was insignificant during Tyson's.
     
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    #28
  14. ChrisPontius

    ChrisPontius March 8th, 1971 Full Member

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    Good point. :good
     
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    ChrisPontius, Mar 6, 2009
    #29
  15. prime

    prime BOX! Writing Champion Full Member

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    Tyson.

    As Mag mentions, Tyson destroyed larger, fully-grown men as a 20-year-old. Liston always came into a fight with the aura of the bully, a glowering, physically-superior man with a dynamite punch feasting on smaller men.

    Plus, the way Tyson demolished his opposition is simply more impressive. He looks faster, sharper, much more dynamic. I remember feeling a bit underwhelmed the first time I watched Liston in his prime: it was the rematch against Williams, a great victory, no doubt. I just felt, and still do, that Tyson did a more impressive job of finishing off opponents than Liston did against the cowering Williams with those slow, one-at-a-time arm punches.
     
    prime, Mar 6, 2009
    prime, Mar 6, 2009
    #30
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