Which was worse Liston, or Duran "quitting" ?

exactly, duran was more honest

 

They are both bad, but if made to pick, I'd choose Liston. Duran had already beaten SRL, and figured he'd just sign to fight him again. SRL wasn't really beating him, so much as he was showing him up. In fact, SRL was doing all he could not to engage Duran but just trying to show him up. Ali in stark contrast was beating Liston every which way but Sunday and doing a fine job of it. Liston had never beaten Clay before, so he couldn't rest on his accolades there. They are both bad really.

 

Regardless of whether he hurt his shoulder or not, Liston was a beaten, hurting fighter. His face was all puffed up. He hadn't had a tough fight in a number of years and the fight still was only halfway through. He was just an old, beat-up fighter who knew he couldn't beat the much younger, gifted Cassius Clay.

On the other hand, Duran was still at his peak or close to it. He wasn't taking a physical beating at all. Leonard was more interested in clowning than putting a hurt on Duran. Duran just got frustrated and quit. The waving of the arm, the disgusted look on his face and the final "No Mas" was much worse.

 

Depends which you find more odious, Duran's "screw everything" inability to see the big picture, or simple bad acting from Liston upon being knocked down. That was Nicholas Cage-level bad.

 

First fight.

 

Honestly i dont hold it against either of them. Listons time was up he met his match in ali. We all knew the writing was on the wall. Talking about a guy that was pretty much still live and was a great fighter but he just came up against a bridge too far that night...up till he quit he gave it what he had...its not like he didnt try in there plus there was or could have been the injury. Ali went on to show he was a gifted fighter. I would have held it against liston more if he was a young man in his prime. But at that stage although still a great fighter ali just had too much for him. Really a case of getting the wrong fighter at maybe the wrong time.

Again with duran...by the time he got to the second leonard fight he was already a veteran in terms of fights had. He won the title against leonard...the biggest achievement he,d had probably always dreamed of. Apparently partied excessively and hadnt come in fully prepared for leonard the second time. Its never great giving up your title like that...but guys are allowed off nights. No matter who you are. Or fights they werent fully prepared for because of whatever reason. Talking about guys that had 50 fights with very very few off nights. They were fighting a lot more often than the guys of today etc. And often fighting good guys back to back etc.

Plus leonard had came in a good bit better more mentally prepared the second time etc. Duran shouldnt have quit...but i still think the way people hold it against him today is just wrong! It really has little bearing of how great a fighter he was. Same with liston really.

 

Oh, well then Duran was the bigger putz . I guess.

 

I'd agree. I think both thought they would come back and get them in the next installment. Liston failed for whatever reason (and the potential reasons are multiple) where as Duran didn't get the rubber match he expected.

 

Duran didn't deserve any rubber match. For him to cheat the boxing world and paying fans with his quit job in New Orleans, he had dues to pay first. In that way, what happened to him over the next couple years was a just come-uppance. None of this "oh, not tonight, but in six months I'll let you pay me another ten million and I'll try harder then, honestly" bvllsh/t.

 

Hard to argue.

 

Tbf boxers are still human beings. We all have off nights. We all let things slip. By the time duran fought leonard he d already had something like 60 fights. Thats 60 training camps. I think he d won them all bar one. He was on point for pretty much all of them sixty fights including the first leonard fight. What happened next is a combination of taking his eye off the ball and leonard coming back a better fighter more prepared for it. Leonard also outsmarted him a bit in terms of getting the rematch done pretty sharply after the first fight.

Duran has to take the blame but i m pretty sure in the grand scheme of things...it shouldnt really play that much bearing on how you judge duran as a fighter. I think he proved overall in his career he was no quitter. Just his preparation for that given fight wasnt what it should have been.

 

I didn't say anything about his rating as a fighter , simply that he had no moral claim to demand any immediate rubber match. Not with how he messed up in New Orleans.

 

I think comparing Liston's dive to no mas would have been the better question
look at Liston's face ali had done a job on him, Duran really didn't take a beating but the Leonard was making him look silly. I think because Duran had this macho man aura everyone was shocked when he quit no one would even think for a second that he would quit. Liston didn't have to take further punishment for the entertainment of people who have never taken a punch.