Whitaker or Jones? Who should rank higher on a p4p list?

Discussion in 'World Boxing Forum' started by McGrain, Feb 21, 2008.


  1. lefty

    lefty Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,802
    2
    Apr 29, 2006
    I actually had the 1st Griffin fight in mind, Jones was getting outboxed for the 1st half of that fight, Harding had his moments against Jones, so did Hopkins, when guys weren't intimadated by Jones speed they could outbox him, the problem with the guys who fought jones is they would freeze instead of executing a gameplan. Jones wasn't a really skilled boxer, he kept his distance because that is the only way he could win fights, by using his athletic advantages to jump in with left hooks. His unorthodox style,swagger and athleticism is what won him fights, when it came to boxing skills he was merely good, not elite like guys like Whitaker.
     
  2. kg0208

    kg0208 Obsessed with Boxing Full Member

    16,031
    6
    Aug 8, 2005
    Being unorthodox doesn't make him less skilled. He fought on the outside because it gave him an advantage. Harding and Hopkins had their moments, but they were beaten clearly and by no less than 4 rounds. So to say he didn't always win clearly was a bit misleading.

    Of the things I listed, tell me how they were NOT skills and how Jones was deficient in those areas. You seem to have taken his lack of doing something for incapable. Jones fought on the inside if you crowded him and did quite well. His choice doesn't indicate a limitation.
     
  3. Minotauro

    Minotauro Boxing Addict Full Member

    5,628
    712
    May 22, 2007
    Whittaker his resume is much better and he always fought the best.
     
  4. Cabannero

    Cabannero Active Member Full Member

    547
    0
    Jan 13, 2008
    Not to mention Quartey and Tito unifications :nut
     
  5. SugarRay

    SugarRay Active Member Full Member

    688
    3
    Mar 18, 2006
    Jones was about to KO Griffin and did so convincingly in the rematch. Boxing skills??? Jones had tremendous skills. Just because he wasn't conventional doesn't mean he didn't have any. He did what worked for him. Conventional techniques work well generally but, doesn't mean you can't better them as it depends on the individual's abilities. I don't think you can name anyone who gave Jones a close fight. Jones beat both Hopkins and Toney convincingly and look how far up the tree these guys are. Jones is further ahead at his best weight than Whitaker is at his.
     
  6. SugarRay

    SugarRay Active Member Full Member

    688
    3
    Mar 18, 2006
    Yeah, I deliberately mentioned those weights to compare like for like. Jones is further ahead of his peers than Whitaker is at their best weights. In the case of Jones there could be more than one weight.
     
  7. SugarRay

    SugarRay Active Member Full Member

    688
    3
    Mar 18, 2006
    Well, personally I feel that there is more competition at WW than LHW but, if all things were equal Jones was not as physically disadvantaged as Whitaker was (as Whitaker was short for a WW) so, it was harder for Whitaker to excel.
     
  8. sweet_scientist

    sweet_scientist Boxing Junkie Full Member

    13,744
    88
    Nov 8, 2004
    If there were as many titles as there are today and if cherry picking was all the vogue, I'm sure a couple more would have done it. Someone like a Mickey Walker for example could probably have snagged a belt from welterweight all the way up to heavyweight.


    Heard of a fellow called Willie Pep? There may be a general trend towards fighters with extreme offensive abilities populating p4p tables, but it doesn't mean that the odd defensive genius can't sneak in there.


    Who do you think would have gone on to be a great had it not been for Jones? If there were others amongst that lot cleaning everyone up bar Jones I'd maybe say you were right. I don't see anyone there that would have gone onto great things.

    At light heavyweight the guys I'd pick to have a better than 50-50 chance of beating Jones would be Archie Moore, Ezzard Charles, Michael Spinks and Bob Foster. Guys that could also beat him are Gene Tunney, Harry Greb, Harold Johnson, Floyd Patterson, Billy Conn, Sam Langford, Tommy Loughran and Dwight Qawi, though I wouldn't favour any of them over Jones.

    More guys would beat Whitaker at welterweight than they would Jones at light heavyweight, but in their best divisions I think they are both about as hard to beat. The thing is though, lightweight just happens to be the deepest division in the sport's history, super middleweight, isn't close.
     
  9. bigtime-skills

    bigtime-skills Well-Known Member Full Member

    2,540
    102
    Apr 20, 2007
    And that should wrap up this argument......I would LOVE to see someone dispute this:yep
     
  10. SugarRay

    SugarRay Active Member Full Member

    688
    3
    Mar 18, 2006
    Yeah, I have heard but citing one or two cases doesn't disprove the theory. I guess another way to look at it is see how many guys you would favour over Jones at 154, 160, 168, and 175 and do the same for Whitaker at 135, 140, 147 and 154. My list is shorter for Jones. Yes, I agree that the lower weights are more competitive as it encompasses more people. Put it this way, they are both pretty high on the list and you could make an argument both ways. Picking Jones is just my opinion as he rarely conceeded a round.
     
  11. SugarRay

    SugarRay Active Member Full Member

    688
    3
    Mar 18, 2006
    Hopkins and Toney come to mind.

    I think Jones would beat Moore via decision as he was way too fast.
     
  12. Iron Mick Titan

    Iron Mick Titan I thought we was havinfun Full Member

    336
    1
    Feb 22, 2008
    yeah whitakers resume is deeper when you consider he was robbed against chavez and ramirez
     
  13. joekirkbycobra

    joekirkbycobra King Of The Ring Full Member

    3,966
    2
    Jan 4, 2008
    ive got jones' career and only 15 of sweet peas so i might b biased toward jones but i say rjjr not by much tho
     
  14. Florida boy

    Florida boy Bodacious Full Member

    1,078
    0
    Oct 3, 2007
    this post shows your knowledge level, which is not to high buddy. :good
     
  15. El Bombasto

    El Bombasto Ask yo momma Full Member

    3,269
    2
    May 23, 2006
    If all you need to do is 'face' (and lose to) a great fighter to be considered great, where do you rank Ross The Boss Purrity and Hurricane McNeely?