Whitaker or Jones? Who should rank higher on a p4p list?

who has more achievements, better resume, and is "greater"? whitaker.
who would win in a fight? Jones.

 

Jones was a natural Super Middleweight, Whitaker was a natural Lightweight. Obviously Jones would win.

 

im talkin p4p

 

Interesting matchup. I'll try not to delve too deeply into it, as H2H P4P matchups hold little merit, but when choosing Jones, what do you think of a B level slickster like Griffin giving Jones so much trouble in their first fight before getting stopped?

 

I agree

Whitaker didn't have an excellent array of offensive weapons. His jab was garbage (Vasquez will tell you that), his straight left hand was terrible (Nazario will tell you that), he wasn't a good body puncher, and he didn't have much of a hook with either hand (watch the Louie Lomeli fight - Pea couldn't throw a hook to save his life).

 

Too much of a hypothetical. Anyone could speculate, but nothing credible can be said.

 

I don't know I think Roy had a ton more athletism than Pea. If RJJ was built like Pea, I don't think he would have been as good. Pea won his fights more on guile and ring intelligence than just raw natural ability.

If we are talking about resumes, I'd say it's close. Roy has Hopkins and Toney (best wins), as well as McCallum (old), Hill, Castro, Tarver, and Woods. Pea has (best wins) JCC, Nelson, Vasquez (vastly underrated), Ramirez, and Pineda.

I'd lean towards Pea because I think the resumes are almost a wash, and Pea was just more fundamentally sound and was never stopped. His style would win out in the long run over RJJ.

 

Toney, even during his prime, was massively overrated imo.

He was getting outboxed by a decent but by no means great boxer in Michael Nunn before Ko'ing him late, I thought he drew with Reggie Johnson, I thought he lost the rematch with an aging McCallum and I had him losing to a journeyman in Dave Tiberi. In between all that he had some good performances like the first McCallum fight and the Iran Barkley performance (though let's be serious, Barkley was pretty much done there) and the Charles Williams performance was decent too though he had a few problems there as well.

After the Jones thrashing he fell off the radar and has emerged a couple of times to beat a few ok fighters, but it's been obvious that if he fought any elite fighters he'd get thrashed again.

Nelson was just way more consistent than him imo. Between the losses to Sanchez when he was green (a great effort to push Sal as he did) and Whitaker (which you could call his prime years) I had Nelson beating all his opponents (even his first fights with Mario Martinez and Marcos Villasana I scored for Nelson. The Villasana fight CLEARLY for Nelson).

Even Nelson's past prime capers have been more impressive to me than Toney's. Yes he did lose to Jeff Fenech, but then he went to Jeff's backyard and demolished him. He went on to beat decent fighters like Laporte, Leija, Ruelas and Grove as well.

 

I also consider Toney to be very overrated. In my short stint at boxing-scene they talked about him like he was God, one of the most skilled boxers to ever lace em up. Saying at his best he was better than Jones(they ACTUALLY said that) and basically that all of his losses were due to lack of motivation. The excuses for him are sad, his hardcore fans will drive you nuts.

At his very best, he was quite skilled, but nowhere near as good as his fanatics think. Hopkins was better for sure IMO.

 

Toney ruined Jirov, beat Holyfield, Ruiz, and arguably Peter. I don't think he is overrated, I think RJJ win over him is. Toney had to kill himself to make weight, I think at cruiser or LHW, it would have been a closer fight, although I still favor RJJ over him because of his hand/foot speed.

 

Again, I think you are greatly underrating Toney and the fighters he beat. Nunn was unbeaten and a Top 3 P4P guy when he was stopped by Toney. And Nunn was a fantastic boxer. Johnson was a very good fighter as well. Jirov was a top amateur and the best CW in the world. And beating McCallum at all at that age is a huge feat IMO. I also found his defeat of Littles to be a great performance.

Nelson was more consistant, but I disagree that he was any better than Toney at his peak. I don't make excuses for Toney. I can't be bothered for why he dropped of the radar. But he was a top rated P4P fighter for a reason.

 

The thing that drives me nuts regarding Toney is when his fans say he was "unbeatable at middleweight."

 

I think that jones was so used to kicking ass so easily and smoothly that when he got even the smallest challenge, it kinda threw off his gameplan. thats why he stopped BSing and finally got the kd which prob wouldve been a ko if he wasn DQd. whitaker would most likely do this to him but i dont think he p4p KO him if someone like trinidad wasnt able to.

Jones would prob just pick up the pace and win with his supeior speed though it was hard to hit pea. the most he could hope for is a massive flurry of ineffective punches when pea was hurt with a nervous ref and get an early controversial stoppage.

 

Well let's be honest, only someone on the level of a Dave Tiberi on his best night could contend with Toney. Now that's pretty hardcore.

 

Seems highly unlikely though, wouldn't ya say? Based on what you wrote in the first paragraph, seems you also think Whitaker has the styles edge in a head to head matchup, but just chose Jones to back up your original post.

Doesn't matter though, these P4P H2H matchups are worthless anyway, no way to judge greatness.