Whitaker or Mayweather - who was greater?

Certainly neither is a top-10 type of a guy, but I have Whitaker a few places higher.

 

talent-even edge to sweet pea
career-edge to FMM

FMM IMO is greater all time

 

I don't think there should be any question that Pea was the greater, more expansive talent tbh. Not by a massive amount but by enough of a step that I'd consider it more or less unarguable. He had pretty much all of Mayweather's defensive techniques down to a tee with an added physical elasticity and range of unorthodox moves that he incorporated seamlessly into his textbook manoeuvres to give him greater variety. Able to riff and improvise in a way Mayweather wouldn't have been comfortable with imo.

Mayweather didn't cross his feet when moving laterally like Pea did and was thus less likely to be caught off balance, but he was more of a move-plant-then counter operator (a superb one) whereas Pea -as well as being able to fight brilliantly that way - could counter or lead brilliantly on the move/retreat without needing to disengage and make an opponent reset while resetting himself also. Have a look at how little a revered fighter like Lomachenko does this in comparison and does need to disengage (albeit with superb footwork, angles and pivoting) and it gives you an idea of how brilliant and remarkable Whitaker was. Floyd could sort of function on the move quite well at times but it was more with minimalistic half-steps/slides and pivots to help set up shots like his counter-hook.

Mayweather had an edge in hand speed, his only clear edge over Pea imo, and you could say that he was a shade more accurate with single punches, although that might be partly because he tended to focus harder on clean pot-shotting whereas Whitaker was more offensively voluminous in the manner of Pep. He threw way more punches than Floyd and with more offensive variety at all ranges, although Mayweather was perhaps a bit tidier and aesthetically pleasing to purists.

Whitaker had the far superior jab, one of the all-time great punches at the weight along with the Duran right overhand counter, the Chavez left to the ribs and the Williams uppercut. Floyd did have a nice jab to the body though, a very good punch.

Mayweather was easier to hit to the body imo though not far off Whitaker in terms of being able to evade head shots. Whitaker seemed to have that Locche-esque barrier around his torso despite having a more relaxed guard than Mayweathers cradle, and both could sway inside/towards body shots ala Kalambay although Whitaker could slip them completely in the manner of Benitez and even roll underneath them at times, a truly freakish ability.

Both could fight on the inside but Pea was superior there for me. I've talked myself out, their career arcs and achievements are another conversation. All I'll say at the minute is that Pea proved himself against better fighters but it isn't the full picture owing to FMJs longevity and dominance.

 

Now that's a post

 

Both were exceptional fighters .. Floyd was also the best self promoter in the history of the sport. How else can we explain an essentially boring fighter in the ring with few KO's in his prime became the highest grossing draw in history dollar for dollar since maybe Dempsey ? It was a perfect marriage of a fighter's image compounded by 24/7 HBO and social media .. Mayweather became a superstar because of how he hit the pads on the HBO 24/7 specials .. the aura of money was insatiable .. that said he was an amazing fighter .. at 147 he cherry picked the opponents perfectly , great names off prime .. that said , H2H , in a razor sharp decision I may favor Floyd based on slightly faster, bigger, longer reach ecxt but it would be a chess match .. two exceptional P4P great fighters ...

 

Wow, well done

 

Superb stuff.

 

Curious about this claim. Why do you consider Whitaker's jab far superior to Mayweather's?

 

Whitaker on points.He has the better jab.He was also the greater fighter

 

Really, who exactly did Floyd beat as a good as Chavez?

 

All that needs to be said really is three things...

Whitaker had no issue taking on top fighters in or close to their prime... while in his or past his. Could you in a million years see May sign to fight Hoya and Felix, while he was past his best and them being monsters? No way. **** he wouldn't face JCV either.

H2h against others, as stated, Pea, while past his best, ran close or beat a prime Hoya. May, while closer to prime got ran close or lost to a weight drained and nearly shot Hoya.

Lastly, Whitaker beats May h2h in my book, so that seals the deal imo

 

Solid post but he CLEARLY beat Hoya as hoya faded 2nd half of fight .. Ist half went to Hoya .. 2nd half dominated by May ... If you used the JLC 1 fight , then you would be right on the money, he lost that one

 

Because of how it looks on film to me against the standard of the fighters Pea faced. Snappier, straighter, more accurate and better timed in general. More versatile - it could serve as a point scorer, a controlling deterrent/disruption to forward momentum (as against Nelson, Chavez, Ramirez, Vasquez, DLH etc), a range-finder (McGirt II), a manoeuvring tool or just as a genuine **** off weapon.

It looks arguably to be his primary weapon (or at least on par with others) in many of his victories against a wide array of styles; no-one was ever really able neither to ditch it often or take it away from him, beat him in a battle of jabs etc. It's just visible (imo at least, and everyone who I've conversed with over the years well-versed in his career) what a monstrous weapon it was, whereas I've never really felt the same about Mayweather's (based on watching most of his fights since him beating Genaro Hernandez), it never seemed as important nor formidable a weapon for him. A part of his armoury for sure and a good punch in it's own right but not an atg punch like Whitakers, not nearly so. Not for me, at least; it's merely an opinion, although one of the stronger ones I have about a particular fighters strengths. If you disagree about the stated disparity (as I'm guessing you do) hey ho, it's fine, we'll agree to disagree. I do think it a tad odd/curious that out of the entire post, it was the observation you picked up on. I've tried to reply in detail to both explain my view and also nip a protracted discussion in the bud as I don't feel it to one of the aspects of debate in the thread particularly worthy of discussion. That's not to be dismissive of your opinion, which I don't presume to pre-empt, or to be rude either, please understand.

 

Chavez was fading and not in his best weightclass.

Mayweather was 36 and in his 5th weightclass when he schooled Canelo. So there’s that win, plus about 2-3x more champions and future hall of famers beaten.