Whitaker v Julio Cesar Chavez in late '88?

Chavez had less wear and tear in 88, also. And was much quicker on his feet back then. I don't buy that Whitaker was a level above. Chavez is one of the greatest fighters who ever entered the ring. And even if one ranks Whitaker above him, it isn't by much.

One of the real problems is that relatively few were paying attention to him until the first Taylor fight, when some of his greatest work was already behind him.

 

I agree with some of what seamus says... but we must also remember Whitaker had less mileage on him and was clearly quicker in 88' than when he moved up. A quicker Whitaker vs. a stronger Chavez and slightly quicker himself really doesn't change the outcome for me. Chavez does better.. but imo.. still made to look average by Whitaker.

 

Whitaker was at his best at lightweight anyway. Whitaker would win a close decision.

 

I pick Whitaker to win a 3-4 point decision best vs best, though i think it would need to be after the first ramirez fight which was a learning experience.I can't agree with McGrain that Whitaker was freakishly brilliant there, he fought well and was obviously an emerging great talent by then, but he wasn't quite there and it was a slightly disjointed, unfocused effort.The ring-genralship was further refined after it.

Pea from the first Ramirez bout against Chavez near top form could go either way imo.Probably super controversial.

 

You have to remember Whitaker claimed to have something like 500 amateur bouts, where as Chavez had no amateur career did he?

I say Whitaker's a level above not as a knock on Chavez but because I consider him P4P as a top5 guy in a H2H sense, I consider him a level above the likes of Henry Armstrong and Ross too.

I can accept he did better work at lower weights, whether he was significantly better I don't know. I think he was a bit raw at 130 and came into his own at 135. The Taylor and Camacho wins are 2 of his best and the Taylor performance underrated as he was breaking Taylor down for rounds.

 

fair does, just as long as you don't make it sound like Park vs Canto or something.:yep

The talent gap was just too big and Pea had been matched really well since turning pro.An emerging all-time great talent that was already excellent but a bit raw vs a good fighter who was starting to fade + the styles involved = a fairly typical scenario for what played out relative to the post 60s era at least.

For that time period most special talents at the end of the day should be able to beat a Ramirez after 15 fights as long as they haven't just been matched with cans.

 

Maybe that last sentence was a bit harsh on Jose Luis.Make it 20.

 

I've seen a few people claim that Ramirez won or deserved a draw against Whitaker.. that is a view I just don't get... I had Whitaker comfortably winning that fight.. a fight.. as McGrain points out.. goes against conventional wisdom being as "green" as whitaker.

 

Watch how smooth, light and effortless Chavez is on his feet here... all while STILL cutting off the ring. It's a thing of beauty. Later he was way more flat footed and tried to get away with upper body movement, which was never going to be as effective against a dynamic southpaw like Whitaker. Food for thought...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eHw_AxYfRQ4

 

So Pea is the WBC champ unifying with Chavez fresh off his Rosario destruction.

Pea is too green at that point, by green I mean that Chavez would have been by miles his sternest test and he would be taken into deep waters. I'm not sure there's anyone who I'd favour over a peak Chavez when they were 16 fights in.

I do think Pea was a better peak LW than chavez was, but not at this point in time.

I wouldn't be massively surprised if Pea pulled it out though, I wouldn't bet on JCC or anything. Just that if they were to fight and I had to pick someone, that someone would be JCC.

 

Id pick Chavez.
He'd box him off fluidly instead of just trying to slow him down with body shots and bomb him out , which didn't work for him in 93.

 

I change my pick to pea by close ud. I'm not gonna be seen agreeing with a spaz like Dino.