Whitaker v Julio Cesar Chavez in late '88?

Holy ****...

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We agree!

 

hahaha!

 

aye it was a bit harsh, i thought that after i'd posted it.


Castillo doesn't have the kind of talent i was thinking of really.A good workman, but he was never looking like a possible great.

I'd tentatively take the Buchanan that fought Cullen to beat Ramirez and that was a year and about five fights after that win you mentioned.Buchanan probably did mature a bit slower than i'd expect for someone of his talent though...and he declined quicker as well.Remarkably poor longevity for someone who was so durable in the ring.

I think as long as you've been fighting a reasonable level of competition 4 years is about right for being ready for a title fight "modern" era wise.Especially for the greaty talented ones.

Sugar Ray Leonard's progression to a world title is the modern career arc benchmark for that imo.Pea was only about a year away from that, it's impressive for sure but it's not a startling effort considering the style, age and ability of JLR imo.Not enough to make me think he'd beat Chavez without a fight like that under his belt first(not that anyone was necessarily saying that).Afterward he became a fully realised concept quite quickly

 

So long as Whitaker doesn't have a damaged hand, he'd win.

He was making an absolute fool of Jose Luis Ramirez before he broke his hand in the first fight. Thereafter he held his own with him, which in and of itself was quite a special effort imo.

With two hands, he's too much for Chavez to deal with and would win by roughly the same margin as he did at welterweight, perhaps a little closer due to Chavez having slightly more strength relative to Whitaker than was shown in their welterweight fight.

Chavez knew how good Whitaker was, even at that stage, that's why he got the **** outta dodge after taking Jose's belt, and went for a rematch with a guy Whitaker tooled in his 12th fight, and who Julio himself had already wasted in Mayweather.

 

Funny because I always thought Whitaker avoided Chavez choosing Ramirez and then Haugen for his title shots.

 

Probably took the path of least resistance sure, but it's not nearly as damning as leaving the division to fight a guy you've already comprehensively beaten and who your rival at lightweight comprehensively beat too.

 

I went through in chapter and verse with I think divac a few years ago.

I'm of the opinion that it was more Chavez(King) than Whitaker doing the dodging..

 

I'm buying this...This was my general feeling at the time. Chavez knew Whitaker would be a very difficult style, at any time...

 

Whitaker would've always been a stylistic nightmare for Chavez, IMHO.

 

I don't know how true it is but I've read on here that Whitaker's handlers didn't want to put him in with Chavez. Chavez's handlers may have not wanted to risk him against Pea too, I don't know. But going up a division isn't necessarily avoiding anyone, he could have been tight at the weight and Mayweather looked re-energised at 140.

 

Whitaker beats Chavez yet Chavez gets the spilt decision

 

You really think Chavez was tight at the weight?

Mayweather was nothing but a strap gaining exercise.

 

I may be in the minority here, but i would slightly favor Chavez here had this fight happen in '88, more so if Pea fighting was Chavez instead of Ramirez the first time around...From around '89-'91 where Pea looked at his absolute best IMO, Pea takes it but the fight would still be very competitive, much more than their '93 encounter at Welter IMO.

 

Draw is a great shout by LittleRed, an actual draw mind

I'll take Pea by decision in a far better fight then what we actually saw.

Chavez was a complete fighter. I completely disagree with PP that Pea was always on another level, or is on a higher level of ability overall. They are different operators and that is where it ends.

Chavez was not the same fighter physically when he eventually fought Pea. I don't doubt that prime vs prime that Whitaker could hack it on the inside with Chavez, but flat out beat a peak Chavez there? No f'n way.

 

I cannot consider Jose Luis Castillo a lightweight in any sense by the way. That guy was no lightweight. He's a welter in any other era.