Whitaker vs. Duran

Maybe so. But fighters can age from one fight to the next, or decline gradually and in subtle ways that don't get picked up against lesser opposition. It should be clear to everyone that Chavez was definitely and obviously past it by '96, in my opinion, and I think most people surmised he was faded in 1994 with the Randall fights, so it's fair enough to make a judgement call on whether he was declining before that too.

I don't have an opinion one way another on whether Chavez was declined against Whitaker or even before - I would need to watch the fights again and closely to even make a guess. But I think it's a reasonable statement to make.

:good

 

A for Duran v Whitaker ..... a very close call, but I'd favour Duran ever so slightly.

 

PowerPuncher, do you really never consider how biased you are?

You must know, and you must know that everyone knows, that you would be the FIRST person to burst out crying if anyone ever said anything like:

"The trouble that Mayweather had with the De La Hoya jab tells me Oscar would've outjabbed and outfought Mayweather at lightweight"

You would be the very FIRST one to say: "STFU, how does a fight at 154 tell you who would win a fight at 135? Floyd was a different fighter at 135 as he was at 154, etc etc".

You know you would. We know you would.

And you would be right.

Because a fight at 154 does not tell you how a fight would go at 135, because a fighter who has fought at 135 is not the same fighter by the time he reaches 154.

Roberto Duran at lightmiddleweight in the 80s was not the same fighter as Roberto Duran at lightweight in the 70s. He had different attributes, due to physical changes and changes in his opponents.

This is just standard. It was a silly point to make, and you should pay more attention to the fights that sweet_scientist recommended. And try and be a little more objective as well. :good

 

I think Duran improved a bit from that point though. In any case, I really, really rate Marcel. I know not many would agree with me, but I actually rate him higher than Wilfred Benitez. A much more consistent fighter with a markedly superior offense. A better chin on him too. Wilfred of course has the better defense.....

 

I really rate Marcel too s_s, he was an extraordinary fighter and I wouldn't argue with anyone who said he was p4p a bit better than Benitez or better than anyone Whitaker ever beat tbh, Chavez included. Him, Pedroza, Sanchez, Nelson and Barrera probably make for the best 5 featherweights of the last 40 or so years but Marcel was more complete and talented than any of them imo, if only marginally in some cases. Nelson and Sanchez in particular would've had fits against him, though I suspect Barrera and particularly Pedroza might have fared better with their styles. Enough to beat him?.....

His CV is nothing to be sneered at either despite the early retirement: Arguello, Gomez x2, Shibata, Serrano, Marcano, Caraballo, Nemoto, Bolanos and holding his own with Duran all before the age of 26. For Duran to overcome a man like Marcel at the age of 18 is bloody impressive even if the fight was very close and the stoppage was a bit naff. If he wasn't as good as Whitaker to some then I'd say he was very close, if not quite as defensively prolific. Closer to Whitaker than any of Whitaker's opponents were to the best version of Duran.

Great, great fighter who should definitely should have a pog at Canastota by now (especially by their nish standards) if you look at it as being important to a boxer's legacy (I don't).

 

You are right on target. the only thing I don't understand is why you passed over Mag to get to powerpuncher. He doesn't hold a candle to Mag.

Mag's arguments to put Duran down and so twisted that it blows the mind.

I have asked him for a list of fighters he ranks about Duran PFP and I have never seen him give it.

 

That's because the list would be both long and comical nonsense. I don't recall anyone who has such a low opinion of Duran as he does.

You'd almost swear Duran had a one night stand with his sister and left pregnant the way he comments about Duran.

 

Duran would be my pick

How would he do it, well with difficulty, 1st thing you need to have an area where you are better than whitaker which isn't easy, he was a master at all ranges, however i'm sure we can all agree duran was better than whitaker on the inside if he could get there. Against a fight with duran whitaker i envisage would use a lot of lateral movement and fight behind his jab.

So the fight for me comes down to duran ability to close the distance. He can do this in quite a lot of different ways, his ability to feint to get inside is top notch but he also has another option open to him, his swarming sort of style he used so effctively to get inside buchanan, coming in fast and almost wild but Duran at his best was able to time the moments when to attack in that wilder fashion. He also had the footspeed to be able to get inside. I believe he would need to mix up the ways he was looking to come inside, so whitaker cannot get a read on him and begin to time his approaches and counter them more effectively.

Once inside pea is no slouch, in fact he's one of the best inside fighters i've ever seen, but duran was better, he was nearly as proficient defensively and was stronger, also his work to the body and just general ability on the inside was better. For me duran has got the ability to take the fight inside often enough and do enough work whilst there to be able to take a tight UD or SD over pea, i can see an argument for pernell winning but i favour duran slightly

 

Marcel was definitely a special fighter. I think he'd beat all the featherweights you mention Tin, with his closest fights probably coming from Nelson and Barrera. I wouldn't go as far as saying that he is up there with Chavez as far as accomplishments go, but he is probably every bit as hard to beat (bull**** decisions aside of course).

 

Yeah, I should have said that I meant in terms of his projected ability at feather or Chavez's ability at welter rather than his overall career or longevity etc. I'd probably have to go back to Saldivar to find another featherweight who I reckon might have a slight jumpstart on Marcel h2h; he would've been a good stylistic foil for Marcel in some ways. It's one of the reasons I could see Barrera doing ok, some of the similarities he has with Saldivar, and I've supposedly been guilty of shooting Barrera down in the past despite liking him.

 

For starters, where the fight took place, the ref and the ring size would be essential.

Let's say a neutral site and a twenty foot ring.

Whitaker by decision. I absolutely love Duran but E. Viruet gave him fits. A boxing Ray Leonard gave him fits.

Whitaker was one of the top five pound or pound fighters of the second half of the 20th Century. He was simply unhittable. I see him frustrating Duran and winning on points.