Whitaker vs Ramirez I

Plus, does a robbery take away from the greatness of a fighter?

I mean, Chavez was an obvious one...as was Ramirez...but do you still consider those loss/draw when assessing Sweet Pea's career as a whole?

If something is taken away from someone when they obviously deserved it....it still should be considered his.

Pea beat both of them, BADLY, and 99% of the boxing community understands and acknowledges that...the other 1% = die hard Chavez fans.

And just for the record, I was also rooting for Chavez in the Taylor fight....its to this day, still one of my all time favorite fights/KOs.

 

:good When people watch those fights, they see his greatness. He really beat Ramirez twice and beat Chavez, unfortunately, on paper, his record doesn't indicate that. Which is also why people shouldn't rely on boxrec to tell the whole story and actually see the fights for themselves.

 

Ummm, in all three of those fights, Whitaker landed more than the other fighter, threw more than the other fighter and made the other fighter miss more.

What he did was hit and not get hit...and that is the very essence of boxing.

The DLH fight was close...but clear. The others were BLOWOUTS. He shut out Ramirez (really there was not a close round in that fight....NOT ONE...go watch it) and he schooled Chavez by at THE VERY LEAST 8 - 4 (and that is being generous).

In fact, here is a way to end this.....

guerrero....post your scorecard for the Chavez fight (the other guy can do it too). Really, let us know what rounds JCC won. I would love to see it....but anyone wanna bet neither of them do? Because once they do, it will be MUCH easier to prove their little pipe dream wrong.

So please......SCORE CARDS OR SHUT THE **** UP!!!!!

Im more than sure myself, brooklyn and sweet_scientist can give you ours....so what do ya say???

 

:nod

 

Chavez "stopped" Ramirez because of an accidental headbut. He didn't come close to hurting him.

You may be right about Whitaker's people but I don't think Whitaker feared Chavez at all. He was calling him out 1990 onwards. The way Whitaker fought everyone, including taking on guys like DLH and even Tito when he was literally shot, I don't think he was scared of anyone. Don't you know, coke gives you a lot of confidence :yep

 

It was a technical decision from a Chavez headbut...Chavez didn't knock Ramirez out.

 

:good

 

guerrerosoul

How did you score the fight?

 

This is unbelievable. Every Whitaker's thread has to turn into a Whitaker-Chavez debates.... I don't mind at all, there is always a bunch of people (haters ?) claiming "Whitaker lost to Oscar and drew with Chavez. Period."
What is funny in that kind of discussion is that usually those guys don't post their scorecards or don't put up arguments (even though I can't see any argument in this fight).

 

Somebody should really let Sues2nd know that proffesional boxng is not scored through amatuer rules!:deal :yep



Btw, I hate for Chavez fans to get labeled Whitaker haters, because in all honesty I'm really not.......

I have great respect for the great things Pernell Whitaker could do in a boxing ring......he fought well vs a legit near prime version of JC Chavez.
I'm not one that feels Chavez was well past his best.
I do feel that fighting at Welter benefited Whitaker, but as far as Chavez being past his prime, I dont feel the way Guerrero does.

My take on the Chavez-Whitaker fight has always been that I felt people were over exaggerating the good things Pernell did in the fight, and overlooking the good things Chavez did in there.

For my taste, Pernell chose very few rounds in the fight to do any real fighting.
I dont think there was more than 3 rounds in the fight where Whitaker decided to put real leverage on his punches.
Thats the one thing I feel that Pernell did'nt do on a consistent enough basis vs Chavez and then DLH to merit the attention of a scoring judge.

Never had a problem with anybody who thought Whitaker deserved to win vs Chavez, the problem I have are with those that feel that Pernell won by a large margin.
I just dont see that.

I scored it a draw. The fight imo could have ranged from 7-5 either way, but no more than that.
Absolutely no way did either Chavez or Whitaker win 8 rounds in that fight.

When biggest robberies in history are discussed in forums like these, Chavez-Whitaker comes up alot, and I suspect many that mention it were fresh out of not havin to use diapers when they last seen the fight......thats where my problem and disagreement lies.


As for Chavez and Whitaker, they were both great fighters......




.......but Chavez was p4p greater!!!!!! :hey

 

Exactly Scientist, admit it to the forum......
......me and you have discussed this at lenghth before.....

......Maybe not Pernell himself, but the Duva's and Main Events were hesitant of having any of their top names from fighting JC Chavez at 140 lbs after they saw first hand up close and personal the horrific damage it did to Meldrick Taylor.

As a Pernell Whitaker fan, you should admit to the forum that yes, the Duva's were leary of putting either Taylor in a rematch or Pernell Whitaker up against what was essentially a systematic career ending slayer in JC Chavez at 140 lbs or below!

 

7-5 either way?. C'mon mate, lets be serious. Forget my avatar, I'm no Whitaker nuthugger, trust me. Regarding Whitaker not constantly fighting during the 12 rounds. Was he not allowed to box?.

You were also the guy who went on about the De La Hoya v Trinidad fight. You favoured Trinidad. I'll tell you one thing mate, you must score on fighters coming forward and nothing else, certainly not clean effective punches.

 

As for you. I'm not the type of guy who gets wound up by people on boxing forums. But your scorecard annoys me, and your view on scoring the fight sucks. I think your a liar.

 

Whitaker didn't beat DLH. It was close though.

 

WHAT THE HELL ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT???

The fight is scored on defense (Whitaker), Clean Punching (Whitaker...Chavez maybe hit him clean a handful of times at most), Ring Generalship (Ummm, did they fight Whitaker's pace or Chavez's...Exactly...Could at any point Chavez cut off the ring? Exactly again) and Effective Aggression (Chavez walking forward and getting hit all night, while doing really nothing else...is not effective...Whitaker again).

Funny, I had respect for you as a poster, I normally see eye to eye with alot your opinions. But to make a post like THAT, and then say I DONT KNOW HOW TO SCORE A FIGHT??? What are you a jackass?

Did Chavez hit Whitaker clean? NO!
Did he put up ANY defense to what Whitaker was throwing at him (remember Sweet Pea outworked him and outlanded him in almost every round...and with every type of punch..jab, power punch, body shot)? Again, NO!
Did Chavez keep the fight at his pace, or in anyway cut off the ring? HELL NO!
Was Chavez's aggression effective in anyway? NOT ON YOUR LIFE!

I dont know how to score a fight? I think you need to peer in the mirror for that one brother.

:hi:

Oh yeah, post your scorecards (round by round), I wanna see this. Again, I knew none of them would.

(and btw, I didnt label ALL Chavez fans Whitaker haters....HELL IM A CHAVEZ FAN...I said all Whitaker haters are Chavez fans...big difference.)