Who’s the best trainer of all time?

From what I hear and read about Nacho Beristain, he is one of them, I know a first hand story about his insights on the Marquez fights and he could see **** that no one else could, milisecond habits that caused many knockouts for Marquez, not only the Pacquiao one that we all could see happening sometime.
And that´s the thing actually, most great trainers do that, this Crawford coach, I hear that he had all figured out about what to do, how to get a knockout against Spence.

Al Silvani was great, he is the one that perfected Alexis Arguello, Arguello was a brawler that didn´t jab before Silvani, when Silvani came, alexis started to jab, started to land those signature hooks off the jab.... at least is what appears and is what I read somwhere.

Jofre´s father, Kid Jofre was by all accounts a good one too, my boxing coach used to train with him (my boxing coach died last year), used to teach body punching very much, all the time, he was more like a teacher, body punching and double jab was his thing.

 

Larry Holmes is quoted saying that trainers and coaches were not too important, Larry Holmes was such a bitter primadona guy, my God, what a terrible guy to work with he must have been.

 

Holmes was CHEAP. This was his overriding MO.

 

Sure, let him do everything himself, ungratefulness seem to be a part of boxing sometimes, people like to **** on managers for example but in reality if it was all done by the fighter himself he would not get there, they don´t realize that, there was plenty of fish in the sea, with the wrong manager you get ****ed in the ass early and never reach your full potential.

A guy like Tommy Morrison, give him the team best suited to him, and he could be much greater. But they let him drink and partying until he got aids.
He had a weak chin you probably gonna say, rate the worst chins of all time for me... did Floyd Patterson came up ? How come Patterson was greater than Morrison then ? Because of Cus and how good he was at managing and coaching his guys !

 

I like Steward. I don't think Dundee did much with Leonard or Ali, whereas Steward added a lot of genius elements to the game of Lennox and Wlad and turned them both into top 10 all time heavyweights with his strategy and technique. Supervised probably the most dynamic welterweight ever in Tommy Hearns. Has the most prestigious coaching tree altogether.

I also like Nacho Beristain because he has a system of boxing that comes through in his guys and everyone he trains will be fundamentally sound and have good pop and good strategy. I always admired him also for pulling Oscar out against Pac seeing that he didn't need to take any more punishment.

 

Whitey Bimstein was in the corner of more top contenders and champions than any other trainer in the 1920s, '30s, and '40s, Must have been a reason for that, No? Unbelievable that he hasn't been mentioned previously in this thread. Or if he has, I've missed it. Of course, we all know that Ingo relied on Whitey to prepare him for his fights with American fighters (beginning with the Machen bout) and the European fighters he fought after he lost the title.

 

Morrison was a loose cannon. Not sure anyone was going to control him.

Has anyone mentioned Bill Miller? That dude had a deep and educated understanding of the game.

 

Patterson was the legit world’s heavyweight champion who beat legit contenders defeating Chuvalo, Bonavena among many others. He SHOULD have gotten the decision over Ellis which would have given him a third heavyweight championship albeit only a paper title.

 

Say what you will about Cus but no other heavyweights come close in speed and combinations to Patterson and Tyson, Louis had combinations but not close to the speed of them

Morrison is second, maybe even third rate compared to Patterson and Tyson

Cus was a savant in the art of boxing, most of the other guys are just coaches of the sport

 

I'd say either Eddie Futch or Bill Miller reason being: so many other trainers that are being considered as the best learned their craft from those two.

 

Most talented people are difficult to work with. People put up with them because they can do things others cannot.

Of course there’s exceptions but if Tom Brady is a primadonna but he won Super Bowls. Michael Jordan wasn’t a bowl of cherries to coach or to play with. But those rings sure were nice.

Larry didn’t want to overpay later in his career for some advice from someone that he figured he could come to on his own or already knew. And I think if you take Larry Holmes’ experience sparring with Ali vs. what he learned from someone holding the mitts … he’s a better fighter for the former than from the latter IMO.

As someone who has coached, you might find that you can align yourself with a lot of easy people to work with and your side gets its tail kicked by those difficult guys others put up with … and the money is better with the difficult guys. You think it was easy getting Tyson to come to the gym and train once he became a big shot with all that money? History says no. But it probably paid well enough to make it worth putting up with.

 

Manny then Cus imo

 

Cus
Derrick Lewis
Crawford's fat boy trainer
Tim Tszyu's trainer Igor Golubev

 

Give Patterson a puncher like Cleveland Williams soon, and his career could be ruined.
Cus only made the fights with Liston when there was no way to avoid anymore.

Patterson was great, I love him, but he is a overachiever as far as heavyweights go.

 

Dundee did everything for his guys, he was no master strategist, no, but he was a great second and corner man, he would do anything for his guy, Ali owns him a lot for the glove ripping scheme in Wembley.... can you imagine if Ali was knocked out that night by Henry Cooper ?
Would he be viewed as this super mega great like he is ? hmmmmm;
Strategy and technique aspect gets overrated sometimes, it is only one piece of a fight´s result.
Dundee had the best quality a trainer can have.... no ego.
I do think coaches and trainers that never fought enter with a disavantage when they are coaching... but maybe it is what make them great on the other hand, because guys that fought generally have massive egos and cannot detach from that once they became trainers.

If you have a big ego and believe you are the **** because you fought, you won´t have the patience to teach and see mistakes and forgive the fighter and make him learn over and over again.